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Messages - Hans Chung-Otterson

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roleplaying theory, hardcore / Re: Does GM Agenda determine the style of play? Is AW the Right to Dream?

« on: August 26, 2010, 05:47:23 PM »

I'm going to say what I've heard said, and what I believe: No game "is" an agenda. There's no "Right to Dream" game or "Story Now" game, but rather, "Right to Dream," "Step on Up," and "Story Now" are agendas that help us understand instances of play over time (I think this is how Vincent phrased it in an interview with Clyde--Theory from the Closet--and it makes a lot of sense to me). So instead of saying "Apocalypse World is Right to Dream," you might say, "man, we're doing some intense Right to Dream stuff with Apocalypse World right now." Again, the categories discuss instances of play over time, not the games, especially not the people (every time someone says "I'm a narrativist" my nerd hackles raise).

All I know is that, at my table, we're getting some great Story Now out of Apocalypse World. It seems like AW would be well-suited for RTD play, but I still don't even know what the fuck RTD play looks like, so I guess don't take that as gospel.

Apocalypse World / Re: [n00b] Does the MC roll dice?

« on: August 26, 2010, 11:23:20 AM »

well, plus the sooper-sekrit move, you roll for that; oh but it looks like Vincent just scrawled that one in my book, so maybe not everyone has it.

Apocalypse World / Re: sell me on weird

« on: August 24, 2010, 11:31:28 PM »

I think Weird is the way it is because Vincent designed the Brainer first, and said that it was good, and we (all, sort of) know that it is good.

But I'd like to hear Vincent's opinion on this matter.

Apocalypse World / Re: Hardholder Compound

« on: August 23, 2010, 10:57:11 PM »

Whatever you wish? But if you want an answer, it's the holding.

Apocalypse World / Re: Playbooks for Charity

« on: August 21, 2010, 01:45:33 PM »

Quote from: benhimself on August 21, 2010, 09:48:03 AM

I've come up with a playbook idea called "The Golden Child", a few special moves, and something so awesome that I don't want to spoil it here before I come to a decision on the matter. All I need to iron down is the names and look section, really.

So, do I post my ideas to make them available for all and sundry... or do I create an totally sweet and hyperexclusive playbook?

Dilemma!

Is it actually a child? Please say yes!

blood & guts / Re: Misses and the "generalization" of moves

« on: August 20, 2010, 03:47:47 AM »

I think the key here is that Vincent said "I found when I was designing my basic moves that if I had to write "on a miss...," it meant that I hadn't fully generalized the move to myself."

Basic moves for a hack definitely shouldn't have "miss" clauses, but I think custom moves that an MC makes for a game absolutely can have "miss" clauses, and it's not a weakness. Also class moves, like Johnstone shows. Because custom (and class, depending) moves are for a specific situation.

Quote from: Bret on August 19, 2010, 03:19:52 PM

I would love it if someone had an example move that they felt needed "on a miss..." instructions so we could talk about that.

How bout this one, Bret?

When you shoot up with the drugs that Lala made, roll+cool.
   On a 10+, you take +1 forward when opening your brain.
   On a 7-9, you take +1 forward when opening your brain, but the next thing you do is Acting Under Fire.
   On a miss, you pass out and wake up who the fuck knows where, and aren't you missing something?

Apocalypse World / Re: Playbooks for Charity

« on: August 19, 2010, 10:54:35 PM »

Quote from: mcdaldno on August 19, 2010, 08:24:08 PM

Adam,

If you're a completionist, it sounds like this set-up is ideal for you. Because maintaining a complete collection will be *hard as fuck*, but it'll all be about social sleuthing, and not at all about buying.

And maintaining a complete set will carry so much prestige. In a year, if you have the Maestro D', Faceless, Boar-Hunter, the Slave Lord, the Harpy, the Sea Dog, the Farmhand and the Silent Killer... well, you'll be the only person besides Vincent with them all. Massive prestige that transcends mere buying power.

yes! This is why my idea is good. It's like collecting the copy of a copy of your favorite band's first demo that they sent to the record label. Wouldn't that be fucking hot? Way more fun & rewarding, even if you don't get 'em all. Because, let's be honest, otherwise you'll get them all and they'll be sitting on your hard drive as PDFs and maybe you read them once but seriously? They don't all get used. But that Slave Lord (wtf awesome) you had to scam off that smelly dude at Dreamation for the last half of your burrito, that you will make fucking sure sees play.

Apocalypse World / Re: Playbooks for Charity

« on: August 19, 2010, 06:45:44 PM »

Quote from: lumpley on August 19, 2010, 06:32:56 PM

Get used to it! If I have my way, there'll be so many exclusive playbooks that every Apocalypse World player you meet will have a different mix.

The way to do this would be to make new playbooks but don't distribute the PDF. Just hand out like 30 playbooks at the next con you're at. Then people will really value them and have to get a friend of a friend to loan them their Lumdummer playbook just so they can photocopy it. That sounds rad to me, anyway.

Apocalypse World / Re: Player Priorities in Apocalypse World

« on: August 19, 2010, 11:28:53 AM »

Quote from: Motipha on August 19, 2010, 10:51:43 AM

If I'm running a game, my intention is to have fun doing so as well. As such, my role is not just to facilitate others, but to do so in a way that still satisfies my desires for the game and setting. I'm just not turning up with a preplanned agenda of what MUST and CANNOT, and I'm not expecting to be the sole creative force/authority of fiction at the table.

Yeah, definitely! For my part, anyway, I said that part of the MC's job is to "contribute to this party while letting others contribute." Our game; not my game, not your game.

Apocalypse World / Re: Player Priorities in Apocalypse World

« on: August 18, 2010, 05:01:20 PM »

I really like this answer:

Quote from: Bret on August 18, 2010, 11:23:39 AM

I think the moves are those things where you say, "Hey this is what I want to do." If you want to boss around a gang and put down mutiny, take a character with Pack Alpha. If you want to take on groups of people and shoot them up, take a character with Not to Be Fucked With. If you want to be the one who gives advice, take Oftener Right.

I think Moves are the next step for trad game skills and abilities like you find in Shadowrun or GURPS, and transmute them into something in line with what Luke is describing.

and this one:

Quote from: eggdropsoap on August 18, 2010, 02:17:30 PM

AW is all about letting the players direct. The MC's job and the MC mechanics are all about making flags unnecessary: why use semaphores when you've got a cell phone?

In my original post I wasn't assuming that Apocalypse World needed some written or mechanical player priorities that it doesn't have; I just wanted to hash out what player priorities look like in AW, because I sure as shit can see that there's no lack of player-driven activity in the game.

In that regard these thoughts from Bret and eggdropsoap (dude, what is your name?) are great, and get me to this point in my thinking: any move the character makes is a player priority in Apocalypse World, because the game is all about them. Because there's no plot.*

Bonus realization: I asked a long time ago why the MC is called the MC, and I never got an answer, but after MCing and thinking about it and reading this thread, I get it. It's just a flag to get you, MC, to understand that it's not your game, it's our game, and you're just the Master of Ceremonies and accordingly should have the attitude and role of any MC at any gathering: Facilitate, smooth over rough spots, and contribute to this party while letting others contribute.

*btw, I haven't played a lot of Burning Wheel, but to me in that game the GM doesn't bring a plot that's suited to the player's Beliefs, but rather puts obstacles/interesting things in the way of those Beliefs, and what the players do and what GM does creates a story. Much like in AW. In this regard I disagree with eggdrop's earlier post. But this is a tangent!

Apocalypse World / Re: Extended Mediography

« on: August 18, 2010, 04:34:46 AM »

What about AW-appropriate hip-hop? Do you have any? I've been thinking about it but haven't had any good finds yet. I'll keep listening through my stuff.

I MEAN, except for cLOUDDEAD. I have the album "ten" and while I have no clue what it's about, or even what they're saying most of the time, it's weird and chopped-up and I think is good mood music for AW.

Apocalypse World / Re: Picking a Move from Another Playbook

« on: August 18, 2010, 04:20:48 AM »

Quote from: Selyuna on August 18, 2010, 04:08:21 AM

So it's logical to take "fortunes" move only when you have the followers and "fortune" tag.
But...
Only a skinner have an option to improve like this:
- get followers (detail) and fortunes (move)

So, you can take "fortunes" move, but this will give you nothing, right?
cause you don't have followers and they don't have "n-fortunes" tag.

Right. You can only get followers one of three ways:

1. Be a Hocus
2. Take that Skinner improvement
3. Get followers in the fiction somehow

And followers only grant you +1 fortune, right? There's no such thing as x fortune, where x is anything other than +1, right?

Apocalypse World / Player Priorities in Apocalypse World

« on: August 18, 2010, 03:53:41 AM »

Are they there?

In an interview on GeekNights, Luke Crane said, "I feel stupid playing a roleplaying game in 2010 if I do not have a place to insert or choose a priority as a player--meaning something that I am interested in as a person that I want my character to do." (i.e., Beliefs in Burning Wheel)

this, coupled with one of my fellow players in the AW game that I'm MCing saying that (paraphrase) "maybe it's worthwhile for us to insert some sort of player priority into the game,"* has got me thinking about player priorities in AW.

My theory is that it's a mix between the character type that you choose and an emergent property of the game. Choosing the Gunlugger is effectively saying, "I as a player want to be the baddest ass." Choosing the Angel is saying, "I want people to need me." etc.

And then you play the game, and the logical consequences of the moves you make and the moves the MC makes are for you to discover what your priorities as a player are, and then to gun for them.

This feels like an unfinished thought, and I think I'm missing something. Pretty much this is the same thing as, say, D&D 4th, right? I choose a Wizard because I want to control the battlefield and dabble in arcana. Then I play and figure out what it is I as a player want out of the game beyond that. Except the structure of 4E doesn't support me nearly as much as AW's structure in this regard (is this true? why is this?)

What do you think?

*btw, to this I said, "I think figuring out what you want is sort of the point of AW. Let's leave things as they are."

other lumpley games / Re: Old, unfinished, unpublished

« on: August 18, 2010, 03:12:14 AM »

Quote from: Margolotte on August 17, 2010, 12:49:43 AM

If y'all only knew what our conversations are like sometimes:

"Ok, so you've got these three games at this stage, and I've got this one at this stage, and we really should start play-testing that one by October. Better make it September. Thank goodness this one only needs some polishing. Oh, and that idea you had in the shower this morning? Totally do that. Plus, we have these three kids, and this yard, and work and stuff."

ha! So very poignant.

Apocalypse World / Re: Picking a Move from Another Playbook

« on: August 18, 2010, 03:07:48 AM »

Quote from: lumpley on August 17, 2010, 06:32:30 PM

The answer is no!

Vincent, I think this is a bit confusing, because in response to the OP you said "yes!" when she asked "can I pick moves like a Hocus' followers?" But the move is actually fortunes, and picking fortunes doesn't automatically grant you followers, much like No shit driver doesn't automatically grant you a car.

Right?

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