16
Dungeon World / Re: The Great List of Common Dangers?
« on: November 30, 2012, 05:51:22 PM »
I'm already revamping the core combat moves in another thread, but who knows? Maybe. =P
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17
Dungeon World / Re: Improved combat moves
« on: November 30, 2012, 10:45:55 AM »
Version 2.0
MISSILE MAYHEM:
When you launch a weapon at an enemy at range, roll +Dex.
On a 10+ you get to pick one of these:
- deal massive harm (+1d6 extra)
- deal harm and knock the target down
- deal harm and disarm the target (probably an arm hit)
- deal harm and shift to a better position (towards the door; on a horse; etc)
- drive group back, dealing harm to one
- drive group back, NOT dealing harm to anyone (good for crossbows, doesn't work twice)
- if truly your last arrow/bolt/etc, ignore armour as you deal harm
On a 7-9 you deal harm, but must pick one other thing:
- you have to move to get the shot, placing you in danger of the GM's choice
- you have to take what you can get: -1d6 harm
- you have to take several shots, reducing your ammo by one
On a miss, the GM gets pick one of these, as well as your target:
- you receive harm from a projectile or nearby enemy
- you lose both your footing and the grip of your weapon
- nearby enemy jumps and grapples you, with you getting -1 on all rolls
- you deal harm to an ally, spreading confusion; your party gets -1 next round
- all your ammo gets dumped; picking up a projectile requires Defy Danger
CLOSE SHAVE:
When you launch a weapon into grapple or close combat with an ally in it, roll +Dex.
On a 10+ you get to pick one of these:
- deal harm to a target of your choice
- shift ally near the target to a major position of advantage (n/a for grapple)
- push the target to a major position of disadvantage (n/a for grapple)
On a 7-9 you get to pick one of these:
- you deal harm both to your target and your ally
- deal harm, placing an ALLY near target in a danger of the GM's choice (n/a for grapple)
- deal harm, placing yourself in a danger of the GM's choice (n/a for grapple)
On a miss, you deal massive harm to an ally (+1d6 extra)
MISSILE MAYHEM:
When you launch a weapon at an enemy at range, roll +Dex.
On a 10+ you get to pick one of these:
- deal massive harm (+1d6 extra)
- deal harm and knock the target down
- deal harm and disarm the target (probably an arm hit)
- deal harm and shift to a better position (towards the door; on a horse; etc)
- drive group back, dealing harm to one
- drive group back, NOT dealing harm to anyone (good for crossbows, doesn't work twice)
- if truly your last arrow/bolt/etc, ignore armour as you deal harm
On a 7-9 you deal harm, but must pick one other thing:
- you have to move to get the shot, placing you in danger of the GM's choice
- you have to take what you can get: -1d6 harm
- you have to take several shots, reducing your ammo by one
On a miss, the GM gets pick one of these, as well as your target:
- you receive harm from a projectile or nearby enemy
- you lose both your footing and the grip of your weapon
- nearby enemy jumps and grapples you, with you getting -1 on all rolls
- you deal harm to an ally, spreading confusion; your party gets -1 next round
- all your ammo gets dumped; picking up a projectile requires Defy Danger
CLOSE SHAVE:
When you launch a weapon into grapple or close combat with an ally in it, roll +Dex.
On a 10+ you get to pick one of these:
- deal harm to a target of your choice
- shift ally near the target to a major position of advantage (n/a for grapple)
- push the target to a major position of disadvantage (n/a for grapple)
On a 7-9 you get to pick one of these:
- you deal harm both to your target and your ally
- deal harm, placing an ALLY near target in a danger of the GM's choice (n/a for grapple)
- deal harm, placing yourself in a danger of the GM's choice (n/a for grapple)
On a miss, you deal massive harm to an ally (+1d6 extra)
18
Dungeon World / Re: Using miniatures... lightly
« on: November 30, 2012, 09:59:01 AM »I've used minis, in much the way you describe. For us, it was a fight with like, 20+ cultists on a tower with swarming bat-things all around. Worked ok, but given that my players are used to D&D 4e, there was definitely some bad habits that kept trying to rear their head.
Like what? Just curious. =)
19
Dungeon World / Re: Improved combat moves
« on: November 30, 2012, 09:40:09 AM »
Ah, I get it now. As Meleé Brawl and Missile Mayhem are intended to be drop-in replacements for H&S and Volley, they are also intended to have the same triggers than the moves they are intended to replace.
That said, I should probably move the "shots into grapple" results to a separate move with distinct fictional trigger. Good point.
That said, I should probably move the "shots into grapple" results to a separate move with distinct fictional trigger. Good point.
20
Dungeon World / Re: Disarms, Trips and conditions in general
« on: November 30, 2012, 08:45:51 AM »Bob the Fighter - "I roll 7 on that roll to disarm"
Your Loving MC - "Cool, you can knock the weapon out of the guy's hand easy, but that wolf is going to have a clean shot at your ankle if you do. How much do you like your ankle?"
Bob - "Screw it, I knock the jerk's sword away. I'll deal with the wolf late-OW!"
MC - "Yeah, d6 damage doesn't feel that comfortable, does it?"
Bob - "You could've rolled it instead of throwing it at me..."
So, you're actually giving him a hard bargain with the success on what Bob aimed out for on one scale? And a hard move on the.. very same scale where the success is? IMO that's like saying "You rolled 7-9, now pick both 10+ and miss results or neither." And if the player chooses neither, he's really in stagnation, which is not how the rules are supposed to work. Right?
21
Dungeon World / Re: Improved combat moves
« on: November 30, 2012, 04:54:35 AM »My main concern with the moves you present is that they've got too many choices. That's an awful lot to wade through during play, and an awful lot options to weigh against each other.
I don't think it's too much. If a player has chosen his primary weapon, I think a quick glance over the possible options is enough to get an overview of them... especially since only a third of the options (either 10+, 7-9 or miss) apply on every given roll. I mean, I find the classes and their abilities a lot harder to orient in than these options here. Your mileage may vary, of course.
Also (and this might just be you shorthanding it for brevity's sake): the moves you present don't have a fictional trigger. Are you thinking they'd be the same as H&S and Volley's, just with different results?
Yes, Meleé Brawl and Missile Mayhem are intended as drop-in replacements for H&S and Volley. But... my intention is that, if your character wants to deliberately disarm someone, he will still have to it the normal way -- which, as I get it, is Defy Danger. Granted, it sounds odd and the 10+ results of my moves can also have the same effect, but they do it only in passing... if you really want to disarm someone bad, even with 7-9 result, you'll have to Defy Danger with that end in mind, as disarm isn't a 7-9 option for my moves here.
Also, I don't quite get what you mean by fictional trigger. You mention that term in other thread too, but... I think you mean that... the name of the move just feels odd, when you apply it to a certain situation? Like the... disarm feeling more like an offensive action than Defying Danger if your character is the one that initiates it? If that's the case, I totally agree. I even debated adding a Create Advantage move that would have handled disarms, etc, but I couldn't see much functional difference between that and Defy Danger.
22
Dungeon World / The Great List of Common Dangers?
« on: November 29, 2012, 03:56:12 PM »
Has anyone ever compiled a list of The Great List of Common Dangers or something similar?
Something like:
- additional opponent engages you in meleé
- you expose yourself to enemy projectiles
- you cause collateral damage and a lot of noise
- you're being targeted as the greatest threat
etc.
But a lot longer? =)
It could be an excellent GM tool, a'la the GM moves list, but with a more specific combat application.
Something like:
- additional opponent engages you in meleé
- you expose yourself to enemy projectiles
- you cause collateral damage and a lot of noise
- you're being targeted as the greatest threat
etc.
But a lot longer? =)
It could be an excellent GM tool, a'la the GM moves list, but with a more specific combat application.
23
Dungeon World / Re: Improved combat moves
« on: November 29, 2012, 03:48:34 PM »
MISSILE MAYHEM:
On a 10+ you get to pick one of these:
- deal massive harm (+1d6 extra)
- deal harm and knock the target down
- deal harm and disarm the target (probably an arm hit)
- deal harm and shift to a better position (towards the door; on a horse; etc)
- drive group back, dealing harm to one
- drive group back, NOT dealing harm to anyone (good for crossbows, doesn't work twice)
- move into danger of the GM's choice, but deal harm to two adjacent targets
- shooting into a grapple, deal harm to a grappler of your choice
- if truly your last arrow, ignore armour as you deal harm
On a 7-9 you deal harm, but must pick one other thing:
- you have to move to get the shot, placing you in danger of the GM's choice
- you have to take what you can get: -1d6 harm
- you have to take several shots, reducing your ammo by one
- shooting into grapple, deal harm to two grapplers of GM's choice
On a miss, the GM gets pick one of these, as well as your target:
- you receive harm from a projectile or nearby enemy
- you lose both your footing and the grip of your weapon
- nearby enemy jumps and grapples you, with you getting -1 on all rolls
- you deal harm to an ally, spreading confusion; your party gets -1 next round
- all your ammo gets dumped; picking up a projectile requires Defy Danger
- shooting into grapple, deal massive harm to an ally (+1d6 extra)
As before, any additions, comments and criticisms are welcome =)
On a 10+ you get to pick one of these:
- deal massive harm (+1d6 extra)
- deal harm and knock the target down
- deal harm and disarm the target (probably an arm hit)
- deal harm and shift to a better position (towards the door; on a horse; etc)
- drive group back, dealing harm to one
- drive group back, NOT dealing harm to anyone (good for crossbows, doesn't work twice)
- move into danger of the GM's choice, but deal harm to two adjacent targets
- shooting into a grapple, deal harm to a grappler of your choice
- if truly your last arrow, ignore armour as you deal harm
On a 7-9 you deal harm, but must pick one other thing:
- you have to move to get the shot, placing you in danger of the GM's choice
- you have to take what you can get: -1d6 harm
- you have to take several shots, reducing your ammo by one
- shooting into grapple, deal harm to two grapplers of GM's choice
On a miss, the GM gets pick one of these, as well as your target:
- you receive harm from a projectile or nearby enemy
- you lose both your footing and the grip of your weapon
- nearby enemy jumps and grapples you, with you getting -1 on all rolls
- you deal harm to an ally, spreading confusion; your party gets -1 next round
- all your ammo gets dumped; picking up a projectile requires Defy Danger
- shooting into grapple, deal massive harm to an ally (+1d6 extra)
As before, any additions, comments and criticisms are welcome =)
24
Dungeon World / Re: Improved combat moves
« on: November 29, 2012, 02:08:29 PM »1. Pluses on rolls are a big fucking deal in DW. Look at it this way: the fighter probably starts with a 16 STR (+2). Each level up you can increase a stat, so by level 3 they could easily have 18 STR (+3). Clerical Blessing can offer +1 ongoing. That gives +4, which means you can only get a 6- on a roll of natural 2. If they've got an additional +1 on top of that they literally cannot miss.
While that may be true, I didn't actually change the miss probabilities compared to the core. Sure, two 10+ results give +1, but those are both temporary. Either one "round" for the confusion... or for the duration of the grapple. Since +1 bonuses can be received with aid and some other effects, I don't think these rules act differently at all.
25
Dungeon World / Re: PC vs PC combat
« on: November 29, 2012, 11:57:02 AM »
Ah, I think that pretty much works. Thanks!
If anyone handles it differently, please let us know. =)
If anyone handles it differently, please let us know. =)
26
Dungeon World / Re: Improved combat moves
« on: November 29, 2012, 05:44:20 AM »Gregor the fighter is charged by goblins. He says "I run the one leading the charge through with my sword!" He rolls hack and slash and gets a 10+. Awesome! Now he has to choose, but some of the choices don't line up with the fictional situation. For example, he chooses knock down + deal damage, which doesn't quite match up with what he started out doing. Likewise, how did his one stab make his opponent deal damage to an ally?
My versions:
a1) The attack has been declared on the lead goblin, so, the lead takes a full blown hit from Gregor and the fighter knocks another goblin down for good measure.
Or the other way around then.
a2) The goblin lunges at Gregor with his spear, but the fighter knocks it aside and smashes the leader into the mud while cleaving the goblin next to him.
And I'd hold that the goblin leader getting the first attack isn't a stretch regarding to fiction. If Gregor had rolled a miss instead, that "one stab" wouldn't have come to pass either.
b1) Goblin manages to swing at the charging fighter, but misses as Gregor ducks and hits another green man instead, spreading panic and confusion in their ranks.
Okay, I could see the B1 being awkward if the lead goblin had a spear -- completely swingable, but not in a charge, so...
b2) The lead goblin lunges at Gregor with his spear. The fighter ducks and gets close the demon leader, but another swing aimed at him clocks the goblin on the head before Gregor can run him through, spreading panic and confusion in their ranks.
And what I find odd about this, is the ease of coming up with such a complicated maneuvers on the spot. We have the situation. We have the result. Now we simply need to figure out how it would make sense.
And if it doesn't make sense, is there any reason why all options should be viable all the time? I mean, my disarm and throw manuver are meant specifically for human opponents, and you can't pick them when fighting a warg for example -- that's the very reason I put "human(oid)" in there.
GM: "No, you can't do those multiple opponent maneuvers as we established that the lead goblin was several yards forward from his band."
27
Dungeon World / Re: PC vs PC combat
« on: November 29, 2012, 05:06:24 AM »
As I broke this off from another thread, I'll paste the two replies that I got:
As for pvp, I'm out of my element there. My players never fought each other. I've always kinda thought pvp was weird with the apocalypse engine, but other people have had great experiences so I'll let them handle it.
When doing PvP in *World games, in my experience you need both GM and players who go with fiction first, as in, fiction before everything else. No-one involved can, like, push their right to a move in any given moment. And everyone needs to accept that sometimes there's a GM judgement thing going on and they need to respect the GM's judgement.
Essentially, all players should have experience with successfully MCing a *World game. I might be exaggerating, but not much.
If one doesn't have this, I don't think PvP will work out very well. My experience is limited, though.
28
Dungeon World / PC vs PC combat
« on: November 29, 2012, 05:05:20 AM »
How do you handle PC vs PC combat? Let's say there's a huge royal tournament for heaps of gold and two of the PC fighters end up in the finale.
29
Dungeon World / Re: Disarms, Trips and conditions in general
« on: November 29, 2012, 05:03:45 AM »"You'll be able to knock the barbarian's axe from his grasp, but you'll be leaving yourself wide open to his wolf companion's bite... what do you do?"
As DW doesn't have rules for being prone/defenseless/etc, what would leaving oneself open mean? Defy Danger check required? I guess that could work, but if Devy Danger is required, then there's no point asking what the character would do, is there?
You've told them the consequences and asked. Deal damage as established. No need for a defy danger there. They've left themselves open.
Ah, okay. That's an interesting take, too. However, when do you see the dealing damage taking place? If the player won't pay heed to the wolf? Or even if he turns to fight the wolf? Would you allow him an action or would you deal damage immediately as the 7-9 disarm drawback?
P.S.
Okay, I made the PvP into a new thread: http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=5847.0
30
Dungeon World / Re: Improved combat moves
« on: November 28, 2012, 06:31:41 PM »The reason we moved away from it is that it doesn't always line up with the fiction very well.
Can you bring an example or two? Or is it because DW focuses on fighting monsters a lot? I'm definitely from the "human is the greatest monster of them all" school of thought and my Meleé Brawl is definitely designed with mostly human opponents in mind.