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Messages - stras

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91
Dungeon World / Re: AP The Mansion's Cavity
« on: June 06, 2012, 05:34:46 PM »
Hey Frolo! Welcome aboard.  Please forgive me if I paraphrase you - I prefer to go point by point but hopefully my ramblings might be able to help :)

1.  Questions!  I can see why you're concerned a little.  Before we start a session (particularly with new players) I talk a little-bit about the game.  I explain how things are going to go, creative input and so on.  Often I'll bring in quotes from previous players (first game someone pointed out that Dungeon World indicated only dungeons, so I always mention that this is completely not required (tm)).

I find that if you brace the players they do better.  And if I have 1 friend there who's experienced DW before, I pick on them first. Once the others see him get questioned I've actually had a player when I turn to him and ask for a description say "Can I have the questions now?"

So I think it's an acclimatization thing.  When you see someone before you get props for good ideas, and others play off of them it helps break away from past examples I think.

2.  I'm running a game with six people currently.  Yech.  I'd say 2-5 is the sweet spot.  With 2 you usually lack a key role or a key trait but if you're writing a duo story it can work great.  With 3 the 3rd person is usually the one who negotiates peace between the first two.  All of my demo games at origins were 3 player, and everyone keyed very strongly off of each other.  One of the things with 3's is that you can build better pc-npc-pc triangles, or cyclical arrows which you can't with 2's (either they agree or they don't, there is none of that 90 degree push that AW describes).  4's starts subgroups, and 5's has the one strong extra role.  By 6 things get really clunky.  Too many people between focuses, can be a bit rough.

I don't think DW has 4e's hard group dynamic though.  You usually want a butt-kicker (say a fighter) and a non-butt-kicker (say a wizard).  Each class has it's niche so it's not a big deal if you have two different flavors of butt kicker because they do things very differently (ex: paladin can lead men, or be very priesty instead of straight fighty-goodness).  Often times good ideas and storytelling will help far more than specific moves (although sometimes... vica versa).

3.  "This is not my first adventure" can progress to "I'm certain now X has my back" or "we're a well oiled machine" via assists for example.  Similarly "I've sung songs of..." means you're a fan of this kind-of-mythic hero.  This creates a relationship dynamic where you can grow to admire someone, or maybe become disillusioned.  There's a lot of meat there to explore in RP.

4.  Charming and Open is amazing.  I had a bard stop a deadly combat with a demon lord by walking up and talking first (it could have gone ugly, but he was Ramon of house Pandarra after all...).  But most importantly, while you CAN talk to someone and ask these questions, for the bard this is a move.  This means that the bard will more often trade for the truth, as opposed to just hearing what they have to say and having to guess.  You CAN tell the bard where to stick it, but then you won't know what they most desire, or how to get them to do something for you easily.


Your points are salient ones.  One of the greatest challenges of GMing this system has nothing to do with learning the rules or making monsters, but un-teaching the behaviors traditional games have pounded into our heads.  I think hard about every game I run, feedback I receive, and things I notice after every game.  Been running this for a little bit, but I still have so much to learn.

Hope some of this helped! :)

92
Hey, welcome aboard.  One tiny tidbit.

Be a fan of the characters, and say what the truth demands are precepts.  So if the rogue has no chance to disarm a trap - it's not a roll.  If the bard knows what the magic is he doesn't need to spout lore.  But remember, if you try and fail ... you get an xp! Lessens the sting a bit ^_~ Your rogue should be leveling up there shortly!

Races and Alignment. 
Firstly: The race choices are iconic.  Yes it takes a bit away from choice, but this game is a love letter to older editions.  You can probably talk to your GM about a different race if it's that important to you, ultimately it only gives a minor move that usually exemplifies the relationship between that race and class.  I certainly see your point, but I think the usability of the sheets and the speed of creation are good things to weight against it.

Secondly: Alignment.  So DW isn't exactly like old D&D.  Alignment isn't the hard axis that it was in old editions.  Ie: the alignment helps with outlook, but does not dictate actions.  If you have an evil wizard they don't cackle maniacally and talk about world domination, and keep having giant parties with demons and devils.  They have to spread fear and terror to their opponents.  You can serve your king loyally and well, and still do this just fine.  This distinction was a bit easier to see when they had xp structured more like SotY/Lady Blackbird keys - but the impetus is there.  If you act a certain way, you get xp.  Don't let your old-game traditions lock you into a mindset of 'evil' means 'comically evil in all things'.  It's not mandated by the rules anywhere.

93
Dungeon World / Re: Undertake Perilous Journey - Clunky
« on: June 04, 2012, 10:28:06 PM »
I usually address the players who chose to take the roles akin' to the Spout Lore situation - and then tell the GM why.

"You seem to have some fewer rations than expected, but the trip took the right amount of time why is this?"

"We traded two sets of them to some sherpas so they would guide us through the mountains."

or

"Two sets spoiled." "A local creature akin to racoons got into them." "The bard slept with the innkeepers daughter and we had to run out that morning leaving some of the stuff behind."

Similarly: "You consumed the same set of rations, but ran a little late.  Why is that?"

"We had to bypass an angry tribe of orcs, but our thief stole some of their rations." "Soren broke his foot, and we waited for it to heal, but the quartermaster redistributed the rations." "Shrike got lucky and downed some deer while we were on foot." "The region we traveled through was in berry and apple season, so we had snacks alot of the way. The picking ate up time though." "We traveled partway with a caravan, and though they swung us out of our path, they fed us for guard duty, but we had to double back."

I find that while it does feel a bit clunky, we haven't had too much trouble.

94
Dungeon World / Re: Drop night at my local game store
« on: May 30, 2012, 12:06:45 AM »
I've got 3 local stores and a few groups I've infected.  I'm in! :D

95
Dungeon World / Re: [AP] Playing with youngsters
« on: May 29, 2012, 01:54:25 PM »
Hey Chroma!

You should email the creators at gm@dungeon-world.com and they'll set you up.

On 'Spout Lore'.

The first game or two, I listen for the players to ask 'what is that' or 'what do we know about X'.  Usually in the spirit of cooperation, I pick someone and have him 'spout lore' then ask him a leading question about where he may have learned such a thing (Did you fight such a monster before? Did you hear about it in the stories of adventurers in taverns?  Was this in the histories you like reading?).  And listen to whatever they pick, and jot down notes ('likes reading battle tactic books', 'interested on esoteric knowledge about the afterlife') and then I'll ask 'would you have read about a famous battle here?' and have them roll.

After 2-3 times, we've established how this works, and usually the players will talk about something and initiate the process themselves.  "What do we know about this army?" "I dunno, fighter?" and roll.

As a note, I don't always bother making them roll.  Such as if the Ranger mentions he's been in this swamp before, and makes a roll on 1 thing, I keep asking them to author some info "tell me what you might have heard about these lizard men" or just provide the info to them unless it's something specific (ex: The Lizard Man Champion named Arrashar the Tootgnasher).

Does that help? :)

96
Dungeon World / Re: Gasp Actual Play Report
« on: May 23, 2012, 10:28:14 AM »
@StuartM: Sort of 'everyone gets cleave'.  I really dig it.  Particularly because the Warrior is more likely to carry 1 piercing, making them a true terror to all goblin kind.  Wow, no feats/moves required, baked right in, doesn't matter in big fights against dragons and the like, great for mooks ... ... ... ... I'm really starting to like this idea.  I think I'll use it and see how it goes.

97
Dungeon World / Re: Wealth: Special move
« on: May 23, 2012, 10:22:59 AM »
noofy: You should post those up where we might be able to ... ah ... shamelessly steal them for our campaigns too :D

But I second the notion of seeing a fully hashed out wealth.

98
Dungeon World / Re: Gasp Actual Play Report
« on: May 22, 2012, 01:18:54 AM »
No actually, I believe the ranger is a bit stronger than he should be.  

Aaaaaaaaand the math balances out in 2.3.

If anything I'd suggest Viper Strike (Pssssst, it's still called dual wield in the book-text and spreads) be used with bows too (When you take a moment to aim before firing a shot...).

99
Dungeon World / Re: Gasp Actual Play Report
« on: May 21, 2012, 10:57:45 PM »
Quote from: noofy
Did you have any dangers pre-planned, or was that off the cuff? If so, how did you find the monster creation 'on the fly'? Was there much non-combat moves (other than the Perilous Journey)?

I actually go in blank usually, and build from what my players tell me (play to find out what happens right?) but the book comes with a number of tools.  For example, I just opened to the undead section and stole a few things.  I usually sketch out the front and a couple dangers whenever we finish the first fight and folks break for bathroom (although I think we just ran straight through in this case).

They made camp, and I think the bard used his 'speak with someone openly' and there was some RP but since nobody was trying to force anyone elses' hand, things were ok.



My ongoing campaign has a cleric of the Norse gods who takes the role of the front-line fighter. He's very effective in combat with empowered magic weapon, too. This is probably the go-to build for anyone who wants to mix it up in melee with their cleric. I'm encouraging the player to write up new "combat" spells so that it doesn't get stale. As a human cleric, he took magic missile and empowers that bad boy as well, describing it at lightning. Suffice it to say, he's not too concerned about having a d6 for his base damage...

Dude that's so amazing >_> I ... I kind of want to play that now...


I'd love to see your math. I feel like it's balanced so long as the "negative" side of their companion is played up by the GM. If the GM ignores it, the damage is probably on the high side. Am I right?

No actually, I believe the ranger is a bit stronger than he should be.  It has to do with the stat number conversion and accounting for accuracy instead of just 'regular damage'.  I'll post it up here shortly.

Of course this is in part gut feeling, in part some solid math based on AW, and in part some math based on DW.  I have only six or so games under my belt total (wow has it only been three months since I started running this?) so take what I say with a grain of salt, as the designers have a wealth of experience and playtesting I can't hope to match.

If you're trying to get the goblins to do something specific like scatter or leave Bill alone, then it's a Parley in my book. Maybe I'd rule that it was using Dex though since no words were exchanged, just arrows!

Huh, I didn't think of that because ... undead.  With the not so much parley ... but that's an interesting take on it.  

Noofy's Defy Danger (where the danger is the mule getting eaten) seems the more obvious choice.

Thanks for the tips guys!

100
Dungeon World / Gasp Actual Play Report
« on: May 19, 2012, 08:30:10 PM »
Preamble

Once a month there's a local gather of gamers in the area called GASP (Gaming Association of South Western Pennsylvania).  Fifty to a hundred gamers descend together to play pickup board games, RPGs and share food, drink and stories.  It hasn't gathered in 2 months while moving localles, so all of us were excited to re-gather and play.

In interesting side-stories, I met a guy who had an absolutely outrageously pretty hand-bound leather copy of dungeon world (Dan Cetorelli).  Dyed leather cover, the 4 core class symbols on the edges, a carved dungeon map, aged and yellowed pages - it was really nice.

So apparently I must be making a name for myself as a story gamer, since the organizer for the RPG section of the Game Day dragged a couple people over to introduce them to me for potential games.  Of course, I had a handy copy of the sheets to show to folks, and it was decided that people wanted to try out DW.  We only had a little under 2 hours to play, so we jumped in and got started.

Setup

Everyone picked characters.  Our roster was:

Halwyr, the Elven Wizard
Wesley Human Cleric of Helfereth
Pendrel, the Elven Bard
Celion, the Elven Ranger with a mule named Bill

The game went a little differently right off the bat.  Usually I run high fantasy, but as the dragon story shows, it's grim and reminiscent of early editions.  The cleric picked the name Wesley (he stated it as a joke, while laughing) and Pendrel the bard asked him what he wielded as a weapon.  It was a warhammer, so he dubbed him Wesley ... the Crusher. Now I actually haven't seen DW run before a little more over-the-top, heroic or Gonzo, but when you run a game at a game con who you get in your session is kind of arbitrary, and I decided to run with what the group was doing and see how the game held up.

World establishment:  We found out Wesley was the Human Servant of Helfereth, who was the god of Light, Fire and War.  He was his strong arm on the mortal plane, and a sworn vanquisher of the undead.  Yeah, their front line fighter was the cleric (it worked out way better than I expected).

We found out that most elves lived only 30 years (contrary to standard tropes) and our bard was elderly at 29 and a half, and this was his last hurrah before the end.  We also found out that Elven Wizards were immortal, stealing the power from the other elves (where their magic comes from) and living forever once they accumulated enough power.

We found out that the Ranger Celion and his dancing ferocious mule Bill (MVP for the night) were guiding Wesley to Shadow Vale which had been created at the dawn of time  when Helfereth had killed the god of Death and Darkness, and that undead appeared wherever his blood had hit the earth, and the valley was created from the remnants of the dead god.

Game

So game begins.  The first fight was against a number of zombie goblins and orcs, and an undead ogre.  Wesley charged forward, and Pendrell riding on bill egged him on, blending hymns to Helfreth with stories of bravery (adding to his damage).  Wesley didn't pay attention to the well-being of his friends, so he charged ahead of the group, and the rest of the party got swarmed.  While the wizards spells, the rangers arrows and Bill's mighty hooves fought off the clawing undead, Wesley went toe-to-toe with the Ogre, whose knee he shattered.

The Ogre brought to his knees was in range for a sudden charge from bill, and a well placed headshot from the ranger.  Pressing on, they roleplayed dealing with the priests zealotry as opposed to the  rangers more down-to-earth approach to problems.  Pendrell negotiated a peace between the two, and Halwyr identified the ogre's club, finding it to a mystic weapon with the Messy tag, capable of shattering bones in addition to any damage that it does, but it is tied to the power of Havrok the god of death which she conceals from the rest of the group.

The party presses on, Ranger first.  As they walk through a series of stone spikes with corpses chained to the top, the ghostly spirits exit and assault the ranger.  He sends Bill off with the bard to safety, and bets that fire which purifies will work even on the ghostly.  He suffers their chilling touch, while wrapping his arrows in cloth and setting them on fire.

The bard huddles with the Bill,  and both are protected by the ferocious mystic bolts of Halwyr, while Wesley charges forward to aid Celion.  They group is victorious, and Havrok uses their victory to call down the notice of his god and cleanse and sanctify the area long enough for them to rest.  I ran the 'end of game' move here to show the how XP worked, and everyone leveled up once

At this point we were running short on time, so I had them simulate getting to the final confrontation by undertaking a Perilous Journey (which turned out to work pretty well).  We creep up on the evil altar of the god Havrok contained deep inside the bone structure of his ribcage.  Several named opponents were there (including Sheldor, the morningstar wielding champion of the evil god). 

The ranger and bill sneak up, using a sneaky headshot to take out one of the enemies.  Sheldors arch-lich compatriot casts withering spells at the party, whih the mage blocks (interetingly she rolls a 7-9 but only takes 1 damage, considering the over the top description of the enemy spell everyone agreed that this was a fantastic representation of the block).

Wesley brings a crushing strike down upon sheldor, rolling a 12+2 assist to hit (bard), and max on his 4 damage dice (d6, +d4 magic weapon, +2d4 bard boost), and the Wizard uses her ritual ability to cleanse the area, finishing the story for the night.

Review

The game was (as I mentioned) alot more fast, loose and over-the-top than the usual DW sessions I run, but it held up well.  Moreover, when our cleric decided to be a front-line fighter I winced.  But he not only held up well, but showed me a build pattern using sacrifice and empowering to add magic weapons to his strikes, becoming quite the combatant.  Wasn't a combo I had considered, but it's pretty awesome because the cleric-as-a-fighter is a D&D trope that while i don't necessarily care for, didn't seem very well supported, but wow did it work out great.

The bard is really strong.  Their healing is constant (meaning it never goes away or fades) but the ability to heal enemies on a jump is interesting.  Moreover, the additional damage is awesome, but I think their assist ability is potentially the most deadly.  Not broken strong, but strong.  I'm hoping to see the class again in play to compare it to others.  Overall it was a great addition to the party.

The wizard was still one of my favorites, and I like how Ritual and Arcane Shield were used here.

The ranger was pretty strong.  The extra damage isn't necessarily too out of line at higher levels, but at lower levels it gave some folks a sense of sticker shock.  I ran some math on it vs the original driver that the build seems based on and came up with some math that I'll share in a future post.

In terms of the game, how would you handle something like 'multishot'?  Namely 3 goblins were attacking Bill the mule.  If the ranger was trying to save him by rapid-firing some arrows to try and scatter the assaulters.  He hit, and killed one, but everyone wanted to know since you guys have mob rules against a PC if there was an attack-a-mob-back series of rules for the PCs in return (attacking 3 goblins? roll 3dDamage*w?)

Getting ready to run a couple games at Games on Demand at Origins, and this has already been requested :)

101
Dungeon World / Re: New version in the next week?
« on: May 18, 2012, 06:22:50 PM »
Then it might be in time for Origins.  I note as I'm headed there and already scheduled to run some DW sessions.

102
Dungeon World / Re: Actual Play Comments
« on: May 17, 2012, 10:24:07 PM »
Hey! :) You made it!

Aeon here was in my game Sat.  I didn't get a chance to post the full AP report (I'm a couple behind, watch for it in another thread) but great to see you pop up and that you had a great time.

Some really salient points in the writeup.

103
Dungeon World / Re: Monsters - I am confused
« on: May 17, 2012, 12:18:22 AM »
Thanks for the kind words noofy!

I feel like I'm hijacking azato's thread here but I'll answer your questions briefly. (edit: in usual tl;dr fashion)

The dragon was a specific Danger, and the players had bypassed it before.  

To give you a high level gist...

The wizard player established that only those of noble blood (or illegitimate children) in this nation have wizardry.  Literally a sorcerer came down a few thousand years earlier, said "I'm in charge" and lit on fire folks that disagreed, after which he promptly put all their souls in gems that sit in the crown and advise the current ruler (which is a pretty convincing argument, you must agree).  This is part of the world premise and something we established as part of my 'questions' at the beginning of play.

The nation is now at war.  The players have found out that the enemies are led by the ancient undead Elven Queen and her (undead and elven) six husbands, who were all killed by (surprise!) said aforementioned nation's founder (non-elven husband numero 7) who had stolen their immortality and used it to fuel the magics of humanity.

Ok.  So they discovered that while they can make 'the choppy bits' from the elven sorcerer-king corpses, it just doesn't do much good.  So they spouted some lore, and did some research on the subject, talked to some nobles and found out about a god-killer spear that can shred souls (special quality: killing a person or an undead with this spear prevents them from being magic resurrected or returning/staying undead).  Apparently it was a sign of the favor of a specific god, and last was seen in the hands of one of the Faithful who went to go fight a dragon and never came back.

Ok! Now there's a lot more detail there (dragons playing politics with chosen nations, what the spear is made from, religions and how gods interact in this world in general) but the point is: The spear was in the dragon's lair.  They (smartly) researched how to get in.  Got in.  The Thief nabbed it.  They left.

This was one of those cases where they roll 6- on the roll to filch the spear and nothing happened immediately. I just made a small note that said "The Dragon Notices".  

So looking at the dragon I see "Demand Tribute" as a move and "Act with Disdain".  So he flies over in his dragon rage to teach the nearest town (who MUST have sheltered these thieves) a lesson by breaking their twig-and-pebble boxes, and reminding them who's boss.  And having been directly responsible for this, the PCs felt they had to try and help.  Besides ... provisions!

So more mechanically.  The campaign is 'Seven Rings for Seven Kings'.  The Adventure front is 'The Heartseeker Spear'.  The Dragon was just a Danger.

The fighter DID survive.  She had to defy danger (the danger being paralasys from pain) to run away, and once to hold onto her life (this is truly dangerous!) till the party found her. We had a very classic scene where the party had to hold her down while the priest could say the prayers over her side, her single eye rolling in the socket while her hand was crushing the tiny hand of the halfling thief who was trying to comfort her.  

So the next day, they look at the ruin that is her right side, and they're sitting around.  Hungry. And start trying to figure out what to do.  And they start talking options.

So right now the fighter is deciding between going to the Valley where the Veil is Thin and letting the wizard Ritual up a necromanced arm, but she's not comfortable with taking bits of living people to do so (one of my requirements).  Her second option is to seek the dwarven king and their Runesmiths, as they have once or twice in history forged golden limbs for champions that have served the Dwarven nation, but they're not sure they could convince them to do this.  The third option (and this showcases how flexible and awesome this system is) is for her to pledge to a god as their champion on this plane.  She can multiclass the paladin 'Quest' ability, and bear an arm made of holy power as the 'mark of divine authority' but only while questing for them.

Alternately she might just rock the 'Sanzen' look (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tange_Sazen) till the spear is used.

Make the world fantastic and fill their life with wonder and adventure right? Next game, we play to find out what they decide ^_^

104
Dungeon World / Re: AP + Comments: Back for More!
« on: May 15, 2012, 07:28:54 PM »
Assassins, Barbarians, Druids, Monks, Gunslingers, Acrobats, Cavaliers, Swordsingers, Shieldmaidens, Adepts, Warlocks, Alchemists and on and on and on are all definitely potential future guild-releases or the like but part of why we made DW a CCBY licensed game is so that people could show us their own take on the classes that make up their vision of the game!  Trust me, though, we have a few of our favourites and more than one way of presenting them.

Woohoo! HE SAID DRUID! (Also Barbarian, Assassin, Shieldmaiden, Warlock and Alchemist!) :)

So are you guys planning on doing like a monthly/quarterly release thing?  Maybe have submissions, and include the best fan playbooks/fiction/campaign-dangers or whatnot? (or if I use a fancy game-design term 'continuing content')

105
Dungeon World / Re: Monsters - I am confused
« on: May 15, 2012, 04:13:03 PM »
@JH & skinnyghost: Thanks :) Makin' me feel sheepish here.

@sage: Please by all means.  Everything I write here, I do to try and help make the game better and share whatever insights I've stumbled across by playtesting.  I'd be honored to get a mention on 'the blog' :)

(If you could ... you know ... change the "it's" to "its" that's glaring at me from paragraph 8 before I get laughed at on the internets that would be awesome. >_>)

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