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Messages - Himalayan Salt

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Apocalypse World / Re: What's the deal with venues? Burned Over
« on: November 25, 2021, 04:45:04 AM »
Looking through the latest release, it doesn't seem like Venues have been defined. None of the playbooks start with it and the only thing that mentions it is the Wealth move. Seems like something that hasn't been written out yet and will be elaborated on later.

Apocalypse World / Re: Wolves of the Maelstrom as PCs
« on: November 03, 2021, 11:12:39 PM »
I haven't run for or played a Child-Thing, so I can just help you with just the last two questions.

The PC might not be a human, but they can still have humanity. Keep in mind even NPC Wolfs are Grotesques, which are explicitly described as incredibly fucked up people - but still people and subject to the "Make everyone human" Principal.

The PC Wolf doesn't have to be going after the Child-Thing. The NPC Wolves are, but you can ask the Wolf PC "So why aren't you interested in hunting the Child-Thing?" Hell, there's nothing saying they can't be allies to the Child-Thing if that's the route the players go.

Apocalypse World / Re: Advance Manipulation - too many allies
« on: October 23, 2020, 01:29:33 AM »
The Battlebabe's advance is available right away and you can decide who you want to be your Ally - that's what makes it valuable even though advanced Manipulate eventually becomes available. I played a Battlebabe and that was my first advance because I wanted my character's father to be special. Otherwise, he would have been viewed through the MC's crosshairs and possibly a Threat until I got five advances and had a reason to Manipulate him - and I would have had to get a 12+ for that to happen.

Also advanced Manipulate can very well lead to the end of the campaign - you are making more and more of the people around you genuine friends and removing them as Threats. You're establishing a status quo of sorts, since they're no longer targeted by the MC's crosshairs. It might be worth taking a look at the game and seeing if ending soon might be on the table, or maybe the Skinner is heading towards retirement and might take her Allies with her.

Apocalypse World / Re: Seize by force in 2ed
« on: September 24, 2020, 03:20:52 PM »
Seize by Force is when both sides are able to hurt each other and are willing to get hurt in return for accomplishing their goals. The 2e rule for SbF basically makes this "You can get what you want, but it'll hurt."

However, most characters aren't going to want to do this. Ideally you want to be in a position where you can hurt your enemy without them hurting you - most likely you'll then be Going Aggro or Suckering Someone. In that case you'll often need to do something else to get into that position first. But maybe if you don't have time, have a better Hard then the stats that you might need to use to make the move(s) that will get you into that position, or you're just badass enough to say it "Fuck it", you'll Seize by Force and deal with the consequences.

Apocalypse World / Re: Seize by force in 2ed
« on: September 23, 2020, 12:35:38 AM »
Also keep in mind that taking Harm is a consequence, and the Harm roll can be called for even if you take 0 Harm. A small gang with shotguns would deal 4 Harm (minus whatever armor you have) unless you're someone like the Gunlugger or Faceless. And with the fortification, the fact that you held it doesn't mean everything's over - now you're in the position the people who ran the oil refinery in Mad Max 2 were in where a dangerous enemy put them under siege. How long can you keep them at bay, and will it be worth whatever they do to you or the place in the processes?

I think the Wolves are part of the Child-Thing specifically because it can lean towards being self-sufficient - you have moves that let you ignore the need to spend Barter and even fully heal yourself. But you're going to need help dealing with whatever the hell the Wolves are, because even if you can fend them off when they attack...what are you going to do when they hurt or kill the people you care about or need? The other PCs are going to be essential unless you want to be in hiding for the rest of your life, never showing affection to anyone the brief moments you go out in the world lest the Wolves go after them when they can't get you.

Apocalypse World / Re: Battlebabe custom weapon choices and armor
« on: May 07, 2020, 12:10:30 AM »
Having played Apocalypse World, I can tell you this isn't really a problem. Yes the Battlebabe is getting 2 for 1 - but they don't have the option to have their weapon not be an area attack. Hope no one they like or need is where they're shooting. It's basically just this combination that's giving this benefit, and I'd assume your players aren't going to take this as "well I'll just put down whatever I want." And if they do, I hope you're able to talk to them about it like adults because I don't think mechanics are your problem here if you can't.

And if you're worried about PvP, the Gunlugger can start with a 4-Harm Grenade Launcher and AP ammo. Plus if I take NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH and/or Bloodcrazed, I can add up to +2 Harm if I'm going up against a PC with no gang. (And 5-Harm AP to a PC with a gang is srill going to fuck them and their gang up real real bad). A Battlebabe with a weapon that got -reload for free is quite tame compared to that.

Apocalypse World / Some questions on handling Savvyhead's Workspace
« on: September 21, 2018, 02:49:58 AM »
A player of mine is playing a Savvyhead, and I was looking through the workshop rules to get ready for answering when they want to make things. The "it's going to take several/dozen/hundreds of tries" requirement - how does it work compared to the other requirements? What I mean is, if having to make a bunch of tries at something takes time, wouldn't that be "It’s going to take hours/days/weeks/months of work"? If the materials would add up, isn't that "It’s going to cost you a fuckton of jingle" or maybe "First you'll need to get enough materials to cover your early attempts" if it wouldn't necessarily be too expensive? I could see how this would play out if it's an infirmary, since having to get a bunch of people to work on would be pretty complicated but for creating stuff what does fulfilling that requirement look like?

A smaller question - what's a good base amount to set for "fuckton of jingle?" I've gone with 5 - the Savvyhead will probably have to do a gig or two or get other people to pitch in but it's not too high I hope. I could always lower or raise it for individual projects. What have you gone with when you chose this option as a requirement for a Savvyhead wanting to make something?

Apocalypse World / Re: Brainer advancement clarification
« on: July 17, 2018, 10:06:10 PM »
Yes, getting 2 additional pieces of brainer gear in addition to what you started with is fine.

I've had an interest in Dogs in the Vineyard for a long time, but never got to play it. I was looking at it again recently, and felt the desire to run a game. I got three people to play, and I wrote up a town. I'd like any advice or criticism on it, to make sure everything works out.

The PCs are:

Sister Marguerite, a convert from back East who came here when her parents were murdered in a mugging. She's worried she doesn't belong as a Dog.

Brother Braxton, a man with a violent distrust of the East and government because he fought in the equivalent of the Utah War (

Sister Mercy, a daughter of a Steward and bit of a tomboy. She's not happy with how she's supposed to act as a woman of the Faith.

Burning Gulch

Pride: Brother Henry is the town Sheriff. About a year ago he fought off some bandits and gained a permanent injury from it. This, combined with his previous years of service, has led him to believe his work deserves to pay more than it is now.

Injustice: Brother Henry has been abusing his power, taking money from the townsfolk by threatening dire consequences for those who don’t obey. He lets them know he won’t help them out if anything bad happens, and will hurt them if they actually try to stop him.


Deceit - Brother Henry uses threats to enrich himself

Disunity - The deputy, Brother Jacob, is assisting Brother Henry for some of the profit. His sister is ill, and he can use the money to help pay for a doctor. Brother Henry’s wife, Sister Anne (Sister Marguerite’s aunt), knows what he’s doing but likes having the money and ignores the effect it’s having on the town.

Demonic Attacks: A strange disease has come through town, rendering people unable to work. Brother Jacob’s sister is starting to recover, but Sister Abigail’s (Sister Mercy’s niece) brother is doing particularly bad. Brother Jacob’s sister’s recovery compared to Sister Abigail’s brother’s makes her angry because of Brother Jacob’s hand in helping Brother Henry.

False Doctrine: A member of the congregation, Brother Jared (Brother Braxton’s uncle), knows that things are real bad. He thinks that since the Steward, Brother Parley, is trying to deal with the situation non-violently it’s up to everyone else to get rid of Brother Henry. He now knows that MURDER IS PERMISSIBLE IN ORDER TO GET RID OF EVIL

Corrupt Worship: Brother Jared has prayed for people in Burning Gulch to come to the same realization and join him in overthrowing Brother Henry, and for the King of Life to grant him power to help in this goal.

False Priesthood: Brother Jared and a few like-minded people (including Sister Abigail) have begun meeting in secret in order to hold their own ceremonies and plan out the murder of Brother Henry.

Sorcery: Brother Jared is a sorcerer. During a recent meeting he blessed Sister Abigail and a demon possessed her. He also blessed the weapons he wants to use in the murders to follow.

Hate and Murder: Brother August was Brother Jared’s neighbor, and began to notice the late night meetings. He tried to find out what was going on, but Brother Jared hid the truth from him. He then told Abigail to kill Brother August, because he would bring everything down if he went to the Steward or Brother Henry. She didn’t want to at first, but Brother Jared told her that she would be responsible for the misery of Burning Gulch and the deaths of people like her brother if she didn’t. So she took a knife and stabbed Brother August to death.

What does each named person want from the Dogs? Write a sentence or two for each.

Brother Henry: Wants the Dogs to agree he deserves more then he would usually have as a Sheriff. He would like their help in finding who murdered Brother August and to hang them. If he finds out it’s Sister Abigail, he’ll just want her imprisoned.

Brother Jacob: Wants the Dogs to stay out of the way as he knows they’re not going to approve of what he’s doing. He wants the murderer to be hung. Finding out it was Sister Abigail won’t change his mind. He’s too proud to ask the Dogs to help his sister recover.

Brother Jared: Wants the Dogs to stay out of his business, because he knows they’re not likely to approve of what he’s doing. He’d be happy if he can get them to declare that he should be the Sheriff instead though. He’ll talk to them about everything bad Brother Henry has been doing.

Sister Abigail: She doesn’t want the Dogs to find out what she’s done, or if they do to forgive her for killing Brother August. She also wants them to cure her brother.

Brother August’s widow: She wants the Dogs to find who murdered her husband and for them to help consoul her grieving children.

Sister Anne: Wants the Dogs to side with Brother Henry and not tell her anything she doesn’t want to hear.

The Steward wants the Dogs to help him stop Brother Henry from abusing his power without killing him, and to find out who killed Brother August. He is worried Brother Henry might be behind it. He is currently unaware of what Brother Jared is doing.

What do the demons want in general? What do they want from the Dogs? What might they do? Write a paragraph.

The demons want the townspeople to get angrier, and for Brother Jared’s plan to be set into motion. They would like the Dogs to agree that Brother Jared is a good replacement Sheriff and appoint him to the position. They also want to make sure his sorcery is kept secret and that the Dogs view the group as justified in what they are doing.

If the Dogs never came, what would happen— that is, what’s the next step up the “what’s wrong” ladder? Write a sentence or two.

Brother Jared and his group would get together and kill Brother Collins and Brother Jacob. With them gone, Brother Jared would install himself as the new Sheriff. However, soon he’d kill the Steward and then anyone he says supported Brother Henry. After a while, he’d rule the town with an iron fist, killing anyone who threatens him or his power.

You can Seize By Force and just grab/grapple with someone and inflict 0 Harm. There's an example in the book in the Seize By Force section:

Keeler decides that enough’s enough and goes to take Birdie’s magnum away from her. (Who gave Birdie a magnum in the first place? Jesus.) Keeler doesn’t want to kill Birdie, so she’s not using a weapon, just her bare hands. She seizes the gun by force and hits the roll with a 9. She chooses to take definite control of it and to impress, dismay, or frighten Birdie.

In the exchange of harm, Keeler hits Birdie for 0-harm for grappling and restraining, minus 0 because Birdie’s wearing no armor, for a total of 0-harm. Birdie hits Keeler for 3-harm for her magnum (3-harm close reload loud), minus 2 for Keeler’s body armor, for a total of 1-harm.

“As soon as Birdie realizes that she’s shot you,” I say, “and she sees the look on your face, she panics. She throws the gun down and runs.”

“She better,” Keeler says.

So you'd be Seizing Dremmer by Force if he's able to attack back (maybe he starts fighting once you try to restrain him). If the MC thinks he's not aware of you trying to stop him and can't fight back yet, it seems like Act Under Fire could fit.

Apocalypse World / Re: 2nd Edition and Seize by Force (and similar moves)
« on: February 05, 2017, 07:11:39 PM »
I remember noticing how the tactical and support moves, along with Seize By Force, didn't have a "prepare for the worst" clause or state if anything else happened on a 6 or less other then only getting 1 choice. So I checked the forums and found this from Vincent:

Paul: Only the basic moves leave misses unspecified. This was true in the 1st Ed and remains true in the 2nd. "The MC makes a hard move on a miss" only applies to the basic moves, and always has.

New to the basic moves in 2nd Edition: when you read a person or read a situation, you still get to ask 1 question on a miss, before I make my hard move. This is because I always played it this way anyway.

In the battle moves, yes, when you're defending something you hold, on a miss you can choose to hold it decisively. When you lay down fire, on a miss you can choose to pin Dremmer in his shed. Yes, this is better for you than "on a miss, choose 0," and if keeping Dremmer in his shed was the entirety of your objective, then yeah, you've done it even on a miss. I think you've understood correctly how it's supposed to play out.

The general pattern is: moves that are more dramatic on a hit, more heroic, are more risky. There are several moves that are freebies, including laying down fire (but not the seize & hold moves, because of the exchange of harm, just as you've realized). This is because laying down fire puts you as a player into a supporting position, not a heroic one, and I want to reward that, not punish it, even on a miss.

Oh and Hobbesque, no, the battle moves won't advance.


So the MC doesn't make a move on a miss with those moves. As for the example by Serenity...well, the Gunlugger is supposed to be frighteningly powerful in fights. But if the gang wants to retaliate then using more dangerous weapons would make sense. Common weapons are shotguns and rifles which do 3-Harm, and grenades which do 4-Harm in an area. And the occasional enemy with some of the bigger guns or just AP ammo could provide a challenge.

Apocalypse World / First Time Making A Threat Map
« on: November 05, 2016, 04:59:37 AM »
So my players have come up with PCs, and have detailed some other NPCs and gangs and vehicles in all that in preparation for the first session. Cool. But here's where I'm confused.

When making the threat map, I'm suppose to put them either in the inner circle, the first ring, the second ring, or further out. It seems like even being in the first ring means the threat is quite a distance away. But the threats they've come up with are all people they deal with in the hold. So that means all the threats I've come up with should be in the inner circle, which seems like a lot. Is it possible for threats in the first circle to live in the same hold, mostly so the innermost circle has some room? Or is it working as intended, if all their problems are coming from people they live with?

Apocalypse World / Getting Barter as a Maestro'D
« on: November 01, 2016, 04:58:32 PM »
A player of mine is making a Maestro'd and noticed there's nothing listed for gigs like in most other playbooks. Obviously the business provides for day to day living, but she wants to know what her options are for making money on the side if need be. The hardholder has a similar thing, but they get barter every session from running the hold. I figure either she can use Fingers In Every Pie or get barter from making deals with PCs/NPCs. But since every list of gigs includes "others, as you negotiate them" then I also assume she or I could come up with something for her to do? Since the Maestro'd is generally involved with their establishment, would doing a gig take up time from running it? Would it be fair to warn her that doing a gig would have some kind of cost or should I reserve that for a hard move if she fails a roll doing the gig?

Apocalypse World / Angel Debts
« on: October 24, 2016, 12:11:40 AM »
So one of the options for when an Angel stabilizes someone is this:

They owe you for your time, attention, and supplies, and you’re going to hold them to it.

Along with this as an option for if life became untenable and you saved them

They come back in your deep, deep debt.

What I'm wondering is why would you choose those? It seems to me that the angel can already claim those in the fiction - "I just healed you, so that'll be X Barter." Or "You were going to die and I did some goddamn medical miracle and got you out of death's door. Not a great experience for me either. Anyway, we can discuss this huge bill of yours once we get to safety."

Is the idea that if the angel chooses the other options then they don't really have a claim to charging the characters? It seems odd for someone to say "Well yes you did stop me from bleeding out real bad, but you learned something about practicing medicine so guess we're even then."

There's no mechanics to those options, no way of helping the Angel collect or make sure they can get it. The Angel could say "Well then I guess I won't help you in the future," but presumably they can always do that even if they chose the other options.

What am I missing?

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