In my table, that's how it goes:

The player with the 'action' (on the spot) says what he wants to do. When there is an attack, it's rolled normally. On a 6-, he is attacked, on a 7 to 9, he causes and receives damage, and on a 10+, he just causes damage. The other player may opt to cause damage or do other thing (like running, grabbing, desarming).

When he finishes his action, the attacked one may act. Basically, that's it.

Pvp happened at sunday, when I MCed this new set of rules. You can see it in this forum, at my Black Wave AP.  The Pvp is at the end of the AP. You don't need to read all of it if you want, but you could see the pvp. It wasn't that clunky and was kind of interesting, but, for each roll, there is space for interpretation.

Black tide AP report

Hey, sunday I gmed a table in an event here and used the Black Tide, sort of. I like to use the campaign fronts as an inspiration and roll with it. The session used Diablo (I, II and III) classes, and was based in Diablo's world. Also, I tested the rules of using 2d6 Damage Rolls for Harm, the new rules that were discussed here in the forum. The rules are as follows:

When you deal damage, you roll+ Damage of the weapon. On a 6-, no damage. On a 7 to 9, you stun, scratches or paralyze the target. On a 10+, you knock down,maim or kill it. The protection roll is used when you take damage. You roll+Protection of your armor. On a 6-, you are knocked down, incapacitated, mutilated, wounded or killed. On a 7 to 9, you are stuned, paralyzed or scratched. On a 10+, no harm. There are no HP values.

So, the players were Sasha (the witch nurse); Oak (The Barbarian); Varyel (the Amazon); Hauk (the sorcerer);  Kallem (the Assassin) and Katsume (The Paladin).

The group of adventurers heard about a long lost treasure in the town of Lea. When the players arrived at Lea, they saw the Templars sect approximating the town. They went to the king and, after hearing his lamenting for the children and his daughter kidnapping by goblins and demons, they accepted to help and received from him a badge of knights on duty.

Fearing that the inquisition of the Templars would take matters personal if they discovered that they are trying to deal with the problems of the demons without consulting them, the Amazon, together with the Barbarian, went to talk with the sect. After some parole from the Amazon, they convinced the Templars that they were there to help.

After dealing with that, the group decided to search for clues about the lost treasure and the missing children. The Barbarian, Witch and Amazon decided to investigate the basements of the houses by kicking their doors down and imposing their will to the villagers, while the Assassin, Paladin and Sorcerer talked with the people searching for clues.

The Barbarian group defied danger with STR, kicking doors down and intimidating. They got 10+ and found a hidden basement filled with black magic content. The villager tried to scape and the barbarian leaped at him, but failed (6-) and felled into the black magic stuff, but resisted the danger (10+). The amazon grabbed the villager, and just after that the the inquisition appeared and wanted to take the villager for interrogation. The Amazon convinced them that they should allow her to interrogate, for she could do the most horrible of tortures without making a bad name for the templars. They accept. In the meantime, the Witch searched the basement and got a 10+, and I gave her a little manticore inside a bottle, and she asked for a cape of invisibility. The 'cape of darkness': If you give your mind to the darkness, you become invisible. The other group found a father that lost his arm fighting against the goblins to save his child. The Paladin cured the rotten flesh of his arm, and he decided to guide them to the goblin's nest.

The two groups reunited and went to the dark forest in search of the goblins nest. The sun settled and they were surrounded by darkness. The sounds of the forest became screams, as the waves of goblins trowed themselves into the adventurers. The Amazon rushed to the darkness, luring the goblins to her, and used a decoy to escape. The barbarian leaped (10+ with STR) into the goblins, and rolled damage (Axe+2, total 10+) and he squished the goblins at his feet. A group of goblins in the trees leaped at the head of the Sorcerer, and he asked: “Can I manipulate the force of action and reaction to push them in mid air”. I said: “you control the elements, so you can control gravity. Ok”. He rolled and got a 10+, and he said: “Fus ro DAH”, and the goblins were pushed beyond the stars, and everyone singed the Dovahkin theme.

Then, a giant ogre appeared, advancing into them. The Amazon took a shoot and blinded it. The ogre, enraged, pulled a tree off and trowed it at the Witch. She invoked a cloud of insects to eat through the wood (7 to 9), but some splinters hurt her. She rolled protection and got a 7 to 9, and the splinters stunned her. The Assassin jumped at the ogre (7 to 9), slashing it (damage 7 to 9), it's blood gushing in his face. The ogre then hugged the assassin and started to strangulate him. The Amazon rushed at the ogre's knees, impaling with her lance (10+) and rolling damage (7 to 9), destroying the monster's knee caps and making it fall to the ground, still grabbing the assassin. The assassin defied danger to escape (7 to 9) and, escaping the monsters grapple, his leg hit the mouth of the ogre and he tumbled to the ground. The Barbarian leaped from the darkness, now using his maul, trying to smash the ogre's head (7 to 9, his damage was 7 to 9), but the ogre defended with it's arm, which was broken by the powerful attack. With it's other arm, the ogre pushed the barbarian away, his maul flying far. The sorcerer invoke flames to hit the ogre (atack 10+ and damage 10+) and the creature is burned from inside out.

After that, the group found the hideout of Ducat, the necromancer who was controlling the goblins and using them to steal the children. The father, who was serving as a guide through the forest, found the corpse of his child at the entrance of Ducat's hideout and went to it. When he grabbed the corpse, it exploded, killing him. The players advanced and entered the place, and the phantasmagorical voice of Ducat said to them that, if they helped him, he would tell where the Tomb of treasure was. Right now, the Barbarian player had to leave, so they gave the barbarian to Ducat, trading for the secret.

While the barbarian was left behind and killed, the players got out of there and, after a while, a zombie, sent by Ducat, puked into the forest soil the map for the lost tomb of treasures. They found the tomb and entered it, but a curse felled upon the paladin (he rolled 6- in his saving throw) and he lost his powers to that day. Then, after entering the tomb, they got into a main saloon filled with food and well made carpentry. Not trusting what they saw, the Amazon poked the food with her's spear, and the chicken leg sprouted pus and rotted fungi legs, attaching itself to the spear. The Amazon trowed it away and the sorcerer burned it. Then, the living rotten food expelled some putrid gas, that awakened all the rest of the food into a wave of rotten meat. The Witch invoker a cloud of locusts (10+ and damage 10+) that ate all of the rotten food in an instant. With the room clear, they advanced and found the sarcophagus.

After opening it and finding lots of treasure inside, a spirit appeared and said that the treasure was needed to make him pass away to a higher plane and asked them to leave it forever untouched. They cursed at him and began stealing the treasure, and the spirit invoker a giant three armed demon through the nether realms. Also, a legion of ghost warriors appeared and surrounded them. The Witch grabbed the manticore in the bottle and trowed it at the demon (result 6-) but a ghost appeared in the trajectory and the bottle hit very close to her. The manticore grew and landed upon her, causing damage. She rolled protection (leather armor +1, total of 5, a 6-) and her legs were broken under the weight ot the manticore.

The red demon advanced, and the sorcerer invoked a wall of ice with spikes to retain it (7 to 9, damage 7 to 9) and the spikes scratched it's skin. The demon broke through the wall and stumbled through the sarcaphogus, it's gigantic and heavy top was projected into the direction of the paladin, who defended against it. While all that happens, the Amazon fights the hordes of ghosts (7 to 9, damage 10+) destroying many of them, but getting hurt. She rolled protection (Leather +1, total 6-) and got stabbed in the neck (suffered great wound).

The Assassin said in secret to my, through a hidden note at the table, that he was planting bombs throught the scenery and, after that, he would scape, kill everything, and then come back to the treasure. He rolled for it (10+) and he planted the bombs very well. When he tried to escape (7 to 9) he got at the exit, but a spear of some ghost pinned him to the wall through his leather armor.

The paladin prayed to the god of light so that his powers came back (7 to 9) and they did come in a flash of ligh...that blinded him. Blinded, but with his powers back, he slashed trough the ghosts (10+, 7 to 9 damage), pushing them all back with his blind sword swings. The witch sacrificed her magical cape to the forces of vudu to heal back her legs, and then invoked insects inside the skin of the manticore (10+) and the manticore started running and breathing fire with the pain and agony that the insects were causing it.

The room was filled with fire, the ghosts were burning and the Red Demon, that was just hurt by the sorcerer (10+ attack, 10+ damage), was now bleeding in waves. The waves of blood flowed through the room, and the Assassin, who just got out of being pinned to the wall (with a 7 to 9), was splatted with blood and glued again into it. The Amazon tried to stop the bleeding (+Con, 7 to 9) and she could do it by sacrificing her armour and using it to wrap the wound. Then, she shoot some arrows to the demon (7 to 9, damage 7 to 9) causing pain to it. The demon spilled it's guts, blood and pus into her (protection 7 to 9) and she tried to fend it off, but was hurt and the bow broken with the impact. With the wild manticore raging, the Sorcerer tried freezing it (7 to 9) but was left open for an attack by ghosts on fire (protection 7 to 9) and was pushed down into the seas of blood.

The Assassin tried escaping again (10+) and the freezing ray of the sorcerer almost hit him, but he managed to escape. Outside, he detonated the bombs, and the whole tomb went down. The Amazon defied danger (6-) but an explosion got her (protection 6-) and exploded her arms and she died. The Witch tried running (7 to 9) and, although she was able to run, she was hit but the fire of the manticore that was able to free itself from the ice prison and set the hair of the with on fire. The Sorcerer also tried running and was targeted by the manticore. He invoked a water gush to project himself out of the room and deflect the manticore breath (7 to 9) but, although he was able to project himself out, he missed the mouth of the monster and also had his hair on fire. The Paladin, blinded, had to roll to remember the entrance (+Int, 7 to 9) and, while he remembered, when he tried running the Red demon grabbed his legs. He used repel evil (7 to 9) and, to repel that evil, he had to explode his leg with it... and so he did. Without one leg, the Paladin tried crawling to the exit (7 to 9) but a rock felled upon him (protection 7 to 9). He pushed the rock away and had to test his faith to live and crawl away (WIS, 6-) but his faith failed him and he died.

They rolled the death move. The Amazon (7 to 9) saw herself in front of a horrid mask and a blood red bow. Would she accept becoming the new Blood Raven and gain new life, or accept death? The Amazon then grabbed the bow, and became the Blood Raven II. The Paladin (7 to 9), saw himself at the backstages of a theater. He was saluted by Belial, who said that his god is a lie and that he was behind it. If he embraced Belial as his lord, he would give him another chance. The paladin refused and died for good.

The Sorcerer and Withc, both with their hairs on fire, walked out of the tomb and the assassin attacked by surprise the Sorcerer. The assassin rolled damage (6-) and the sorcerer rolled protection (7 to 9). It was a success for the sorcerer, and the dagger could not penetrate the leather armor. Then, the sorcerer invoked magic (7 to 9), but opened himself for the assassin's attack. The sorcerer rolled damage (10+) and the assassin protection (7 to 9), and the assassin's armed bursted into flames. Then, the assassin rolled damage (7 to 9) and the sorcerer protection (7 to 9), it was a tie. The sorcerer, heavily hurt from the other battle, was knocked down.

The Witch then invoked a giant spider to bite the traitor (10+), a full success, not alowing the assassin to attack back. She rolled damage (10+) and the assassin rolled protection (7 to 9), a full success again for her. A giant spider appeared and devoured the assassin. The witch then grabbed the sorcerer and they went out of the tomb, the treasure forever lost. When they see the town of Lea on the horizon, a wave of demons is assalting it, leaded by the zombie of a giant and powerfull Barbarian.

That was the end of the session.

Many things of the cenario I didn't use because I forgot. I'm sorry for that, my bad. The new damage resolution with 2d6 that I used in that game proved to be very successful, even more than I anticipated. The older versions were very finicky with health and how to deal with healing. But this one, with a more clear cut table of effects, was very, very effective.

The thing is that the effects on each side of Damage and Protection are varied, so you can push someone down instead of hurting them, for example. And the 10+ damage result can both be 'mutilate', 'maim', 'kill' or 'knock down'. You can make a very hard move, to knock someone down, without compromising with his death.

Death and health came naturally in the session, and the players never complained about Hp or about imposition by the MC. And there were two novice players. That was the 3r d session of the Sorcerer and the 2 nd of the Witch. And she said that her first play was with DeD, and she preferred this one instead.

So, that's it. What do you think guys? Liked the story? The players? The system? I would like to hear your opinion.

Peace

So, basically that's it. John summed it very well and said better than myself. The only thing different that I like to do is to use Protection from armor instead of Con. I do that to give equipment a more important role. That's basically it, but it could use only CON and STR for the rolls.

So, in resume, it could be:

10+ You resist the damage
7 to 9, You take the damage and must react to it
6-, You take the worst of the damage and is out of action

And, to die, the fiction must walks towards it, with a fatal blow or maybe geing hurt while down.

I find it funny that we are, as rpg players, so familiarized with the idea of HPs that we find sometimes hard to deal with things that are so natural. Things like: 'When would someone die?', 'If there are no HPs, how can we track damage?'

I'm not telling that in a sarcastic way, but in a more analytical one. Don't you guys find that funny too? We live our lives always receiving damage, but we do not know how much 'hp' we lost. When we hurt our legs, broke some bone or go through a glass door and having the flesh of our arms being hang out from our bones (yeah, that was not a pleasant experience, I must say, lol), we do not think 'Ok, now I have lost X hit points' nor 'Now I gain the condition "mutilated"'. We just scream in pain and anger, basically.

So, the question 'when do you die' in a rpg is kind of curious from the sociological and cultural point of view, I should say! But I'm digressing sooo much, forgive me, people.

I see that you've been using similar rules for your sessions, John. Would you kindly say to us how does it go? I'm curious about the healing powers, would in your games they be present. Or anything, really. I would like to hear from other players the problems and benefits of this method, if possible.

I see where you're coming from on this, Gaigaia.  You're basically exchanging "Roll Monster Damage" for "roll 2d6+protection" and "Roll Class Damage" for "roll 2d6+Damage".  And then making the outcome of that 2d6+x result have a narrative, fiction-first result rather than just a numeric result.

Yes, you said it better than me. And I see the problems of adapting the whole system for it, but, as I said, the way this damage roll was thought was using the Worlds of Dungeons, but it can work with DW. Just converting the damage dice is very easy, and that would do it. But, in the end, it would take time.

Would you people like to see an adaptation to the DW engine of this method? I could make it, given some time.

But, I dont know. I dont like the idea of a table of damage, as you said. I find tables boring, rs. Well, I don't know, I'm brainstorming here. I find the idea cool, but I feel it can be improved, but I don't know how. More people besides me should play it and see what can be done, maybe.

The Harm moves (Damage and Protection) gave many good possibilities for roleplay. I don't know guys, I don't know, rs.

So, would you people be interested in an adaptation of the damage system of DW to this one to have a better idea?

First, adressing the 'Mistake Potential', it's not like that. The Harm rolls are still harm, both the Protection and Damage. So, when you fail in a Protection roll, you will receive some kind of physical, concrete damage. You may be pushed back, grabbed, desarmed, asfixiated, mutilated, scratched, but it will be damage. So, HP could be renamed, but it should be something like 'Life', 'Fortitude', 'Energy' or something like that. HP is so common in rpgs that it's automatically related to life, so I see no use for changing it. Even so, as it's the nature of Aw, you can change the name with no problem. You can make it just like what you want, no worries about that.

Now, in regards to the 'lethality' of the system, just like in DW you can make things last as long or as little as you want, here you can make the damage be brutal or not. For me, even more than the normal damage rolls, this proves to be more related to story. A narrative damage works better for me than a mechancial one.

So, how to adress the problem? One thing you can do is having special moves for the damage roll. So, for example, for tough monsters you could say they only are damages in a 10+, instead of a 7 to 9, while weak monsters are scratched in a 6-, mutilated in a 7 to 9 and completely obliterated in a 10+.

I, personally, dislike that. I prefere the 'one table to rule them all' way. A 6- is no damage, a 7 to 9 is a fleshwound, a dizzyng blow, and a 10+ is a serious wound. What I do, instead of having different effects for different monsters, I use the idea of critical damage, which I explained in the Dark Souls hack of mine. The idea is: Every damage may have a special tag (like Sharp, Fire, Cold, Acid, Poison, Curse, Demon, Radiant, Cold Iron) and, if you are hurt with a special tag and your armor doesn't have that tag in it's protection, so you will receive critical damage.

When you receive critical damage, if you take 10+ in your protection, you count as taking 7 to 9. That means that you will get hurt no matter what you roll. That, in the fiction, is the elemental magical damage going through your armor. It's the breath of the dragon going through the armor, or the bilefull nature of the otyugh poisoning you. This works the same for players! When they do critical damage, if they roll 6-, they count as 7 to 9.

And what about death? Well, what I do with the narrated damage, instead of the marks of Scratches, Wounds and Lethal, is just to consider a soft damage (7 to 9) be a preapartion for a hard damage (6-). In other words, it's just like the idea of Soft and Hard moves. When the monster hits you and you roll your protection with an 8, you may be grabed, pushed back, scratched and, in the next action, if you do not recover from it, the damage becames Hard. It's like having one extra Hard move for the MC, which titles:

. Escalate a soft damage to a hard damage.

And how could you deal with a hard damage? There are some interesting ways. In the Monster of the Week rpg, there is a box that you can check when you are 'unstabilized'. You can have that in the game. When you roll 6-, or, by other means, receive a hard damage, you mark the box. That means that the damage you received is lethal and, if not stabilized, it will kill you (it's only getting worst).

One new idea I had is to use similar moves as the Madness moves for Dark Worlds (the Cthulhu Dark AW hack from Thievves of time). When you get mad in that game, you can make 'mad moves' so you can reverse back to 'sane'. Well, when your are hurt, you could make a 'Heal move' to be back in active.

I think that could work with Soft Damage. It could be like this:

When you receive Soft damage and want to recover, you can:
. Try to push away or problems or strenghten your musculature (roll+Str); Try to roll away from danger (roll+Dex); Try to recompose yourself (roll+Con); Try to ignore pain and focus (roll+Int); Try to have faith and tune in your instincts (roll+Wis); Try to have courage and good will (roll+Cha).

. On a 10+, you are recovered. On a 7 to 9, you are recovered, but a complication arises (like in the move Defy Danger).

The idea is, when you receive soft damage, you are in a hard spot and, if you do not recover, you will be getting damaged hard. And to heal from hard damage, you will have to get medical or magical treatment.

What do you think?

So I dont know, maybe I was playing DW wrong? First, for me, you should roll damage and then narrate the effect. ONly after the damage is done you can narrate how much you destroyed, ain't that right?

I dont get how using 2d6 would differ from it.And I also dont get the thing about more things to roll, because, if you roll for damage for the monsters would be the same of rolling for 'Protection'. Instead of rolling the monter's damage, you are rolling  your armor.

I see some problems with other stufs, but I'm really not getting those ones. Could you explain better for me so I can get it?