Combat & Combat Types: Help, I don't get it!

If you want to kill someone then your choices typically are:

If they're fighting back, you typically need to seize their life by force. 

If they're not yet fighting, you are allowed to "go aggro, and what I want you to do is fucking die" --at which point they either cave and die, or suck up the harm...and probably die. 

Or, use the fiction to catch them asleep or something and you probably don't roll anything. 

As for the Battlebabe, I think almost every Battlebabe will want to start with Ice Cold.  That means you roll +cool to go aggro, so you can assassinate people by suddenly attacking.  The only problem is that one going aggro may not do enough harm to an armored target, as you don't get a "terrible harm" option like with seize. But with a 3-harm weapon and Merciless, you can one-shot even armored NPCs. 

Does that mean he can now just kill the bastard, regardless of how much harm he's actually done?

Well, Vincent may chip in with something official, but my answer is: "yeah, absolutely, what the heck else could it mean?" It means you have seized power over their life, and unless something immediately stops you from being able to act on that power (like say, you get +harmed to the point of unconsciousness at the same time), you can absolutely make your next thing 'I end that guy's/girl's life.'

As for the Battlebabe being poor in battle -- if the only objective in your battle is killing people? Then sure, okay. But most battles aren't about killing the other guy before they kill you -- Battlebabes excel at creating and (then presumably) exploiting tactical advantages. If you use the 'hold an untenable position' move from the optional battle moves, it generally allows a Battlebabe (and other strong +cool characters) to go anywhere and do almost anything that can be accomplished in the space of three 'ticks.' Need to plant a bomb somewhere? Need to rescue someone? Need to distract the crap out of enemies? Battlebabes are where it's at.

As for straight-up killing, I assumed that any Battlebabe who wants to kill folks has taken the move that allows them to Go Aggro using +cool. (Otherwise my comments earlier wouldn't make a lot of sense.) This move is pretty much indispensible if you want to play a Battlebabe with a more options in the 'serious violence' department. Combined with their +harm move you can push people around until they snap -- and when they snap they will almost assuredly be dead.

From my point of view the Battlebabe is not the character to kill someone. That's the Gunlugger.
The Battlebabe is the character to do something in the battle.
The problem in the situation of the OP (IMHO) is that to kill someone is the main objective of to do something in the battle, because it stops the battle
But it shouldn't be so for the battlebabe. The Battlebabe should enjoy the battle and doesn't want to stop it, not so soon at least.
The problem is the way you handle the battle. If the BB want only to to kill someone that's not a battle, and you need a Gunlugger. But if you want someone that in the middle of battle spring up and put a bomb in the enemy bunker, or rush behind the enemy lines, or be cool even under the fire of a gang, that a BB job.
My point is, what's matter if the battlebabe can't kill the mob? As long as she does something, that is she does something under fire, she will be fine, and she can endura the battle.

this my 2c

EDIT: crossposted with Daniel, that explained very well my point

Yeah, if you just want to win the fight, go Gunlugger. If you want to fight with style, Battlebabe.

Take Dangerous and Sexy. Make eye contact, and boom, the biggest threat can't do jack until you've had your way with them. Or take Visions of Death. Who needs Hard when you can just name who lives and who dies? Perfect Instincts goes a long way towards making up for subpar Hard, and can be handy for other things (utilizing that best escape route, manuevering to take advantage of the enemy's true position, etc). And Battlebabe weapons are awesome. You can start with a 5-harm boomstick, more damage than anyone else in the game. That's a hell of an incentive to not suck it up when you're going aggro.

Last night, the operator and the battlebabe infiltrated the fort of a rival hardhold, which was under siege by the hardholder character's gang. Rolling more or less only for Acting under fire, they unleashed confusion and demoralisation, the defense line crumbled, and then the hardholder attacked and claimed the fortress with no losses. (1-harm to his gang) That was no mean task.

If the gunlugger is a samurai, the battlebabe is a ninja.

Hi everybody.

First of all I would like to thank all of you for your time and patience with me.

I carefully read all your replies and intensively checked the rules and, thanks to all your help, I now get it!

Getting violent against someone who defends himself is Seize by Force... BBabes are not great at that... Getting violent against someone who is not (yet) defending is Going Aggro. Combined with Ice Cold the BBabe is quite a nasty killer either when surprising someone or after maneuvering the victim to a helpless position.
In contrast to the Gunlugger, the BBabe can do other stuff during combat as well.

If the gunlugger is a samurai, the battlebabe is a ninja.

Guys, you told me so, and now I understand it.

Thank you!


Dave

Think about what's happening in the fiction, all the details that establish which move is right. How do you shoot that fucker in the face? What got you up to where you're standing in front of that fucker? How did you get there? Does that fucker know you're there? Is he or she ready? Armed? Caught off guard? Do you have to dodge through a hailstorm of bullets to get to that fucker?

All these details tell you what move is right. Maybe it's seizing by force, if that fucker is standing there all "bring it!" Maybe it's going aggro if the fucker is all "la de da dum I'm browsing iTunes..." and isn't ready for a fight.  Maybe it's acting under fire if you sneak up next to the fucker with the big clumsy rifle and get all stabby in close quarters.

Getting violent against someone who defends himself is Seize by Force... BBabes are not great at that... Getting violent against someone who is not (yet) defending is Going Aggro. Combined with Ice Cold the BBabe is quite a nasty killer either when surprising someone or after maneuvering the victim to a helpless position.
In contrast to the Gunlugger, the BBabe can do other stuff during combat as well.

I like to think of the Battlebabe as an untouchable, both socially and in combat. Look at the +3 Cool, the moves and the sex move.

One on point note first, then something somewhat tangential:

Going aggro seems to have two related definitions:  it's doing violence to someone who can't defend themselves and it's threatening violence to someone and being willing to back it up if they don't back down.  Both of those were mentioned at times during this thread, though not succinctly and not as either/or.

my tangent is really that I seem to have a different interpretation of the Battlebabe than most people.  To me, the battlebabe is a lot like War from the book Good Omens.  Most of the time when you see War, it's not like she's actively doing violence to people, but wherever she is violence just seems to happen and it seems to leave her untouched.  She just smiles lazily, finishes her drink, and walks out the door while everybody is busy blowing each other up.  Looking at it mechanically, that's what the Battlebabe does best.  She's magnetic, she draws everyone towards her, and then she does something that causes trouble and while the rest of you are screaming on the very edge of death she's calmly stepping her way through the minefield to rescue the poor little kitty, which was what she was after in the first place.

She's a sexy thing, someone that everyone kind of wants a part of, but the only way to get close is to step in the line of fire.  And in a world as dangerous and nasty as apocalypse world already is, doing that is a very very interesting thing to do.

Anyway, just my interpretation.  As has been said, you want her to be much more "combat effective" there are moves that cater to that.

Going aggro seems to have two related definitions:  it's doing violence to someone who can't defend themselves and it's threatening violence to someone and being willing to back it up if they don't back down. 

Or perhaps in general, "committing to acts of violence to get what you want." It means hell yes I will commit to smashing your face to get you to do the dishes. And it means hell yes I will commit to smashing your face in order for you to have a smashed face.