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Messages - wightbred

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151
Goblin World / Re: AP: Wrong Cave Massacred
« on: February 14, 2011, 01:54:26 AM »
Ran our second play session on Friday night. Played a version very similar to the Axe to the Eye.

Because of rule changes Brooza is now an Orc Marauder and Gertrude is a Thief. Also Kobolds are now Ratmen.

The fiction:
- The characters have taken over their own cave from the Ratmen last session. Took some time to run through The Cave one-pager which helped define the new cave for them, discovering that there was an underground river and one overworked Ratman slave (Shaddup).
- A Ratman raiding party returned with a keg of beer. Cave Leader Bugsy sent Brooza and Gertrude to deal with it while the other warriors got ready. Defeated the Ratmen in tough fight and the cave celebrated with beer.
- Then Bugsy hid the rest of the beer, but Gertrude followed and found where it was.
- Brooza discovered one of his new whelps (Sneck) was missing, last seen near the underground river. He has mixed feelings about this.
- Bugsy realizes that they have no food for tomorrow, so tries to organize a raiding party. Gets a couple of volunteers despite general beer induced apathy.
- Brooza leads the raiding party out, but veers around the hill toasted where he thinks his whelp has gone through the underground river. After a couple of miles a robust argument starts between Bugsy and Brooza.
- Meanwhile Gertrude lags behind to see what Spud (MC character) is up to. He realizes that Spud is trying to create tension with their old cave so that Spud can kill his enemy Firelegs. Gertrude kills him and plants a chicken he stole from Bugsy earlier on the body.
- The raiders come back to the cave without Brooza who is still out looking, giving up on the raid in disgust. Gertrude shows them Spud's body and the stolen chicken and while Bugsy is thanking him and trying to get the warriors moving Gertrude steals the chicken again. The have Ratman mystery meat for food the next day instead.
- Gertrude goes in search of Brooza and trades the stolen chicken for a bandage. Brooza makes a move on Gertrude (he still needs more healing from the fight with the Ratmen) but Gertrude is grossed out. Then they spot Sneck in the edge of the woods, with a sinister shape stalking him. Gertrude disappears into the mud, while Brooza screams at Sneck to run to him. Sneck runs back but a terrifying Forestlurker attacks Brooza. Gertrude takes a moment to see what happens before he jumps out and backstabs the Forestlurker. The two of them together just manage to defeat it. Gertrude grabs the Forestlurkers twin blades and Brooza grabs their bow and they head back.
- Meanwhile Bugsy has sent a scout to follow the Ratmen's trail to see where they got the beer. The scout reports that the Ratmen raided a small village with an inn. Bugsy plans a raid for that night.
- The player characters argue over the Forestlurker's weapons too loudly so that the other warriors hear and eventually they set out on the raid.
- They sneak into the courtyard of the inn and find some potatoes, a cart Brooza can pull and a their choice of two horses. It is decided to take the fatter nag (which is probably the opposite of the choice a Sunlover would have made) and Bugsy as the smartest tries to work out how it works.. They are surprised by a drunk patron coming out the back door, but Bugsy knocks him out with a sling.
- Gertrude gets bold, sneaks upstairs, finds a shield and creeps out the window to escape discovery. Meanwhile Brooza discovers the mother load in the cellar: a slave, beer and a sacks of food. They load up what they can just as they are discovered.
- Bugsy is dragged off by the nag while the others head home with Brooza pulling the cart and Gertrude riding his back and whipping him. Gertrude realizes that they can get away if they use a distraction, so he pushes over Firelegs (who just joined the cave before the raid) and watches him being beaten by the Sunlovers as they flee.
- Bugsy eventually controls the nag and they use the same ruse they did last time and leave a trail back to their old cave. Bugsy even gives their old cave leader (Blerch) the nag as tribute.
- The Armoured Butchers come in the next day and kill everyone in their old cave, leaving the new cave without competitors.
- But will the Forestlurkers be so easily fooled when they come to avenge their fallen brother?

Notes:
- New rules worked well, except the more complex tactics which we dropped after the Ratmen fight.
- Raid mechanics were good. Limit on Big items worked well to control this.
- Forestlurker and the raid induced the right amount of fear in the players.

152
Goblin World / Actual Play
« on: February 14, 2011, 01:53:29 AM »
This thread is our regular group. I've called this the "Wrong Cave Massacred" as they keep leading Armoured butchers to their enemies caves. This first post is copied from a previous thread to keep this in one place.

The PCs:
- Gerturde the Goblin Blackblade, played by Epic Fail
- Bugsy the Goblin Skirmisher, played by Jim
- Brooza the Hobgoblin Armiger, played by GT

The game (fiction):
- Ran around and did the list which worked great. It emerged from this that Gertrude was a male and Brooza was not a good judge of goblin gender.
- Started with Cave Leader Blerch (need a list of NPC names badly) ordering the PCs to bring back two sheep from a nearby farm for the feast. A round of successful Dominate (Brooza) and Cowering (Gertrude and Bugsy) resulted in Brooza being appointed mission leader, Bugsy being forced to take point and Bugsy knowing why the feast was happening (Sub-Chief coming to visit).
- The raid was interesting. Brooza sent the others down to scope the farm and they happily pursued their own looting options. Eventually Brooza grabbed a sheep and ran off and Gertrude rode out of the farm on another sheep. They were hotly persued by a dog who tore into Brooza before he and Bugsy could kill it. They ran off just before the farmers arrived.
- Meanwhile Gertrude lost his sheep into the briar patch trying to turn around and help them. When the others arrived he failed epically to cover this. They tried to scare out the sheep, but failed and Bugsy jumped up a tree rather than face the cat that emerged instead of the sheep. Brooza came around and ran around with the cat all over his head before the others could help him kill it.
(Aside: Why did I put cats in for special mention? Because in some additions of D&D a house cat could kill a goblin in one round with its claw/claw/bite+rake attack. The players took to this, and now apparently goblins hate cats and want to make hats out of them.)
- They tried to get the sheep out of the briars, but spotted some other humanoids (see kobolds later) and ran-off.
- They took the live sheep and dead dog and the cat back to the cave and after some shouting (Dominate) and some toadying (Cower) they convinced Blerch this was an acceptable result.
- Next day Sub-Chief Langi (need name sheet!) arrived and Bugsy impressed him with the wine he had stolen from the farm. But Langi was annoyed that the Kobolds across the valley were also eating mutton for dinner (the sheep in the briars above). Desperate to impress Blerch sent the players to show the kobolds who was in charge .
- Brooza had to find the reluctant Gertrude to take him, and they stumbled into the Shaman’s area of the cave in the hunt. They were seconded to the Shaman’s use once they returned. They successfully ambushed and killed four kobolds, and returned to further impress Langi.
- Gertrude wasn’t interested in the back-slapping so reported to the Shaman who showed him in a dirty scrying bowl that heroes were coming through the forest to the cave and ordered him to tell Blerch. Langi discovered an urgent appointment elsewhere and told Blerch to handle it. Gertrude cowered to Blerch and convinced him to send the players.
- Deducing that the sheep had caused this, they came up with an excellent plan of using the wool Bugsy had just mended his cloak with to lure the heroes to the kobold’s cave. This worked brilliantly, and the players used their success to entice some of their tribe over to the vacant cave and set Bugsy up as leader of the new cave.
- Bugsy found what was left of the Kobolds treasure (7cp), but before he could even turn around Gertrude had stolen it.
- 2d6 weeks later Brooza had 4 pups (whelps), so it really was a happy ending.

Notes:
- Really felt like they were playing goblins. Afterwards we though that two mechanics did this: Dominate / Cower and the Master combined with the Punish / Survive. Dominate and Cower were often used together by the players and on each other, which made everything they did feel like it was because they had been forced or tricked into doing it. The Master mechanic reminded everyone all the time to think about who was in charge.
- GT had a fake Olympic medal which he put on every time he was the Master which worked really well as a reminder for everyone. Will get more of these next time.
- Players did a great job with descriptions, but need to add “look” elements to make this easier.
- One player put an NPC on their list. This worked well so it is a thing now so might get everyone to describe another goblin in the tribe at the start to get this moving, and (although I didn’t let them in the game) I’m thinking I will also let them roll+List vs NPCs. Maybe could get them to describe the cave as well, using hold type descriptions. Also might add “I am going to have ____________’s pups” to the list.
- Careers worked great. Gertude (Blackblade) for example seemed to sneak almost everywhere which suits the career to a “T”.
- Races worked great. With their new racial power to get away after Survive the goblins felt appropriately slippery, and the Hobgoblin was bigger and tougher but only reasonably so.
- Combat was appropriately deadly.
- They leveled much, much too quickly. This was mostly because of all the use of Dominate and Cower against each other, but this fits the theme so perfectly I wouldn’t change it. We moved to 10 experience per level after they got to level 3. Will start at 10 next time and see how it goes.
- We tweaked a few rules as we went, but nothing major. We did discover a couple of needed basic moves which are below.
- Overall it was brilliant, and I can’t wait to play again.

153
Dungeon World / Re: Handling Hirelings
« on: February 14, 2011, 12:21:56 AM »
Been thinking about this for my own hack, in which the hirelings can really only help you to do a thing you already can. I think for Dungeon World it might be useful to think of hirelings as two sorts of characters:

1) Assistants like apprentices or underling who exist to make you look cool and for the MC to screw you over. For example: "My Thief steals the jewels with the help of the Journeyman Thieves he is training" or "Oh no, they took my apprentice Timmy." Like Sage says Assistants shouldn't get their own moves because they add to or help a player: you use the players move with a bonus to the roll or the effect. (In my hack I say an "Assistant" can add a small stat bonus, adds +1 to damage and can attack the enemy "Assistants".) Think of Assistants like Familiars: they enhance the character but don't replace anyone.

2) Specialists who fill gaps in the characters line-ups, even if this is something simple like carrying the torch. For example Noofy's Cleric problem: without a Cleric the team will have trouble so you can fill this with something more substantial. These should probably have their own moves, even if the player who hired them rolls it, because you need them to be effective.

Need better names than Assistant and Specialist, but I hope you get the idea: look at the point of the hireling and model the moves after this.

154
Goblin World / Playtest Version: Axe to the Eye
« on: February 13, 2011, 08:36:35 PM »
Finally finished the Playtest version. Thanks to those of you who have been patiently waited for this.

Like a ship, I’ve decided each version should have an appropriate name rather than just a number or date. I’m calling this one “Axe to the Eye” because I want to make some improvements to the layout for next time and I hope we’ll have more art then like Epic Fail’s excellent cover image.

Playbooks PDF:
<<<Link deleted>>>

MC Handbook PDF:
<<<Link deleted>>>

Post any spotted errors and your questions about this version in this threat, so anyone else using it can find them easily.

Feel free to post short AP notes here or start your own thread. Drop in a line with the players names (including the MC) if you want me to add them to the playtest details.

Hope you have as much fun with this as we have over the last couple of weeks.

155
Goblin World / Re: Art and Inspiration
« on: February 13, 2011, 05:25:57 PM »
Thank's for the heads up on these Jeff. Have seen them but thought they had a different focus. Will definitely pick them up now.

Epic has sent me the first of the first of the artwork so I'm going to finish the playtest version today.




156
Goblin World / Inspiration
« on: February 12, 2011, 06:57:22 PM »
I have split the Art and Inspiration Thread in two - Wightbred - End May 2011

This thread is to drop in art and inspiration for Goblin World.

Some stuff to get us started:

- The Orcs of Thar which I first played years ago got me into playing different races, although each edition of D&D has rolled this out. Trying to make it less silly and use rules to support the flavour in Goblin World. Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orcs_of_Thar

- This is a great link about how Goblins are misrepresented in D&D: http://www.goblindefensefund.org/

- Can't link to the image of the Worg on the Wizards sight for some reason, but it says "goblin" to me as well as "wolf" which is what I'm aiming for. Easy to find with a search.

- The Goblins Comic is something people always talk about. Although I like my goblins greener and in darker places that this presents. Link: http://www.goblinscomic.com/

- Don't really follow Pathfinder, but I did a search for "goblin" the other day and found a link some goblin PC products they are putting out later this year that look interesting, if maybe a little cutesy. Link: http://paizo.com/store/games/roleplayingGames/p/pathfinderRPG/paizo/pathfinderModules/v5748btpy8ilz

Anything else?

157
Goblin World / Re: Design brainstorming
« on: February 12, 2011, 06:34:18 PM »
Ran through The Cave at the start of our playtest the other night, and it does work well to set the scene. Will write this up with the playtest version which should be out in a couple of days.

They fought a Forestlurker in this, and they seemed more menacing with the name change.

Killed off a couple of my own sacred cows in the new design:

Changed from kobold, hobgoblin and bugbear to ratman, orc and ogre. I'm keen to make this more generic than D&D and these three races are really entrenched in that lore. People can still play them if they want, but I want the basic rules to be be darker and I find my view of these three races limits this.

Have been trying to put some of 4e's tactical movement into the game. Tried out some new tactical rules - which failed spectacularly. They worked fine mechanically, but we found the tactics got in the road of the roleplaying: that is they disconnected us from the characters. I found the same thing with 4e, so I shouldn't have been surprised. Have moved back to more of a AW combat flow now which is working for us.

I find it interesting that I expect a particular type of tactics in D&D and miss them when they are not there, for example in Dungeon World. I think the expectations of the players are the biggest problem facing the 4e designers and Sage and Adam with Dungeon World. Very keen to see what Vincent is doing with Storming as I think this could pull me through these expectations.

Fortunately Goblin World is far enough removed for me that as long as it feels like playing goblins (and The Master, The List etc do this) I don't feel bound by these expectations. Plus it probably helps that I am not really trying to appeal to a broad audience and make money like 4e.

158
Goblin World / Re: Design brainstorming
« on: February 09, 2011, 12:59:20 AM »
Almost ready with the first solid playtest design. Hoping to play this weekend to check some stuff out then we'll be ready to post.

Pretty happy with how it is going. Was able to use some of the stuff I posted here in working this up:
- http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=lbhgjlaf6jeft3sf1t1i1jh1mkee652g&topic=1081.0
- http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=lbhgjlaf6jeft3sf1t1i1jh1mkee652g&topic=661.0

Have also added Warbands, additional goblin types, heaps of loot, etc.

Currently working on one of the last of the new elements: The Cave. I want the players to define the cave they are living in and some of the other goblins at the start by running through a single page checklist. Below is what I have typed up of the top of my head so far.

THE CAVE

The Cave is:
- A separate outpost, set deep into some hills. (-Targets -Vulnerable)
- Connected to a larger tunnel complex. (+Competitors)
- An above-ground ruin. (+Vulnerable)
- (For now) a pleasant village of huts by a stream. (+Vulnerable)
- Sewers in a Sunlover’s city. (+Disease, +Targets and +Vermin)
- What we can carry as we try to make it to _________. The _________ ruined our last cave. (Add “Dear MC, Please screw with us. Love and kisses, The Players.”)

The Cave is notable for:
- A briar patch protecting its entrance. (-Vulnerable)
- Its colony of bats. (+Disease)
- The number of nearby tribes. (+Competitors)

Conditions in the cave are: (Choose 2)
- Cramped. (+Politics)
- Wet. (+Disease)
- Smelly. (+Vermin)

The Cave’s warriors are:
- Savages. (+Savage)
- Poorly armed. (+Vulnerable)
- Too few due to _________. (+Vulnerable)
- Fighting each other. (+Politics)

The Cave Leader is __________ a Bugbear / Goblin / Hobgoblin / Worg. They are:
- Weak (+Politics)
- Savage (+Savage)
- Greedy (takes 75% of loot from raids)

The Cave Shaman is __________ a Bugbear / Goblin / Hobgoblin / Worg. They are:
- Ancient and wise (+Protected)
- Ancient and incompetent (+Vulnerable)
-Young and ambitious (+Politics)

Another goblin is ___________ a Bugbear / Goblin / Hobgoblin / Worg. They are:
- The sworn enemy of __________
- Hiding a terrible secret

A whelp in the Cave is __________ a Bugbear / Goblin / Hobgoblin / Worg. They are:
- The whelp of _________
- Always getting lost

A slave is ___________ a Sunlover, Forestlurker, Longbeard or Hairytoe. They belong to _____________ a Bugbear / Goblin / Hobgoblin / Worg. They are:
- Always trying to escape
- Hiding a terrible secret
- Able to find strange mushrooms in the forest

159
Goblin World / Design brainstorming
« on: February 09, 2011, 12:45:52 AM »
Cool, we have a forum. Thanks, Vincent.

This is a thread for me to kick around ideas with anyone who is interested. Lots of it may be stuff like "hey look a thing" so consider yourself warned.

Feel free to post ideas and suggestions here, but if you do I'm assuming you are happy:
- for me to take them apart and put in the bits I want; and
- that you won't get any cash for this, in the incredibly unlikely event that I ever make any on it; and
- that I drop you in the acknowledgements if I used something and I remember.

If any of this isn't the case please start another thread and make this stuff clear.

160
brainstorming & development / Re: dedicated hack forums
« on: February 08, 2011, 03:11:09 AM »
Hey Vincent.

Tried to send you some PMs, but got some weird error messages. In case you haven't seen them can I get a dedicated forum for my Goblin World hack?

Happy just to go with my handle "Wightbred" for now in the "hack in progress by" bit.

Cheers,
Wightbred

161
Goblin World / Re: Goblin World
« on: February 06, 2011, 08:31:06 PM »
Epic Fail asked me the other day if this hack is for comedy or real for his design. I think both: comedy for a one-shot, but you might be able to get something AW like from the fundamental scarcities and goblin politics.

A potential back cover below:

Something is wrong with the world, and you know exactly what it is: everyone hates you.

It used to be better in the shining copper age of legend but the Earthcutting Sunlovers and the other evil tribes stuffed it up. Now this is what we’ve got: you sleep in water and filth; you get some rotten biscuits to eat if you’re lucky; you only get to go outside so the Sunlover Butchers can kill you; the only weapon you have is a rusty knife; all your so-called allies are all on ‘The List’; and the Cave Leader whips you if you complain.

But you can fight back! Raiders loot and pillage the Sunlovers farms. Marauders charge in and cut down Scary Forestlurkers before they can sing their cursing song. Thieves sneak in quietly behind the Goldkissing Longbeards and snatch their purses as they slit their throats. Skirmishers rush in before the Fatbelly Hairytoes can swallow the food in their gobs and are back out the door before they can scream. Extortionists sit back quietly and rake in the coppers. Shamans curse them all with the power of the Ancients.

This is what we’ve got, yes. But what are you going to take and hide for yourself?

162
Dungeon World / Re: Smoothing AW wrinkles in D&D combat
« on: February 06, 2011, 08:20:21 PM »
I'll leave someone else to get into the detail as I'm short on time, but some links that might be useful:

Some of this like ranged weapons discussed in this thread: http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=s869rv2f1a85984514fb2npvsdl853rd&topic=642.0

Also recommend you check out:
- Sage's January blog on combat here: http://www.latorra.org/2011/01/04/combat-in-dungeon-world/
- The as yet unpublished draft next version which has some explanation of specific moves through: http://www.latorra.org/2010/09/14/dungeon-world-design-in-public/

163
Dungeon World / Re: Town Moves and Prestige Moves
« on: February 06, 2011, 06:55:20 PM »
Oh yeah! They can choose what they want! I think I'm a tinkerer too: I'm having flashovers to Mouse Guard Traits right now...

164
Dungeon World / Re: Town Moves and Prestige Moves
« on: February 06, 2011, 07:51:50 AM »
Love the town stuff, this is seems a good extension into having the characters help define the world like new Cleric stuff Sage and Adam worked up, and the town is the heart of connecting the PCs to the world.

Was thinking of doing something like Action Points in DW lately, but haven't done it. Do you find the Awesome Points reduce the importance / challenge of the roll? I'm keen not to reduce the importance of being able to fail.

(Did you used to post on BW Forum? I seem to recall asking you about another dice mechanic for BW. This you? http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?9357-Narrative-potential-inherent-in-the-results-of-the-dice-pool-WARNING%21-Looong-Post)

165
Dungeon World / Re: Using more of 4e?
« on: February 06, 2011, 07:31:15 AM »
Sort of an AP.

Had the game with the guys I mentioned in the OP on the weekend. We played 3:16, DW and AW. They loved 3:16 and AW, but were left cold by DW. Their view was basically that they'd:
- Rather play 4e even with all it's problems, as it was tactically more interesting; and
- That I needed to tell Sage and Adam to "lighten up on spell dudes" as they felt they were unbalanced.

It is possible that I didn't give DW a fair run as I GMee / MCed for 13 hours straight. But the AW session was one of the best I'd ever played.

I think there is a trick in writing a game based on D&D that for some people (maybe me!) it needs to have a certain tactical / Step On Up feel. Maybe if DW wasn't linked to D&D they and I would see it differently. And maybe that's why this session didn't fly for us and yet I see others posting here that they are loving it.

Anyway, this reinforces the stuff in the posts for me. Very keen to see what Sage was cooking up with John. I also have some new "incorporating the tactical" ideas for my Goblin World game from playing this weekend.



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