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Messages - Darkblood

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Apocalypse World / Re: Interesting examples of barter itens
« on: September 30, 2014, 12:57:19 PM »
Oddments worth 1-barter is quite beneficial in that it's vague...

Yes, I can totally get behind your thinking, and I was not intending any of these items to be individually worth 1 barter (the sole exception would be a good technical book, but in that case it would be a item with "name" and subject, not barter). Nor did I intend for the players to list exactly what they have as barter.

What got this list started was we (me and my players) trying to flesh out our scenario. Someone asked: "so, what kind of useful junk are these people trading with?" and someone said "rechargeable batteries", to which I answered: "only if your talking about a Car sized battery, those are easy to make. I don't think the cellphone sized ones could survive long or be manufactured still". You can see how that led to us discussing what could survive or not. I still ponder about medicine.

Also, one of my player come with: "suppose I'm alone in the desert with a gun and oddments worth 1 barter, and I step on something a shouldn't and get hurt or, say, see something moving on the distant horizon. Can I just say I have bandages or a spyglass as part of my barter?". And another player suggested we should have a list, and when someone wants to check their barter for something useful we could randomly draw 5 to 10 items from that list. I guess in the framework of AW that would be a move, wouldn't it? "Check their barter for something useful" - kinda like the chopper move with his gang, but more limited.

Edit: as a reference, our apocalypse is as Mad Max-y as it gets. It is our first AW game and we went with our hearts and full cliché   :)

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Apocalypse World / Interesting examples of barter itens
« on: September 26, 2014, 05:37:33 PM »
I´m trying to come up with a big list of items that could be considered "barter", things small enough to be carried around, very useful in  specific situations and easily trade-able.

Also, I´m trying to go towards the realism side here, and many things I see listed in other places don´t seem able to resist 50 years and still work (examples: small rechargeable batteries and latex condoms). Does anyone have concrete links/ideas on how long some of these things last.

This is what I could come with so far (mostly scavenged from the internet):

•   Portable water filter
•   Hand tools including hatchets, saws, machetes and general fix-it tools
•   Fire making supplies, including lighters, matches, flint fire steel
•   Sanitary supplies including toilet paper, feminine products and diapers (**)
•   Disposable razors and razor blades
•   Prescription drugs, painkillers, and antibiotics (**)
•   First aid remedies such as cough syrup, cortisone cream, boil-ese, calamine lotion and topical pain relievers (**)
•   Spirits such as bourbon, rum, gin, and vodka
•   Coffee and tea (instant coffee is okay)
•   Solar battery charger and rechargeable batteries (**)
•   Standard Batteries (**)
•   Reading glasses
•   Paracord
•   Bags, including large garbage bags as well as smaller zip-close bags
•   Plastic sheeting
•   Duct tape (**)
•   Tie Wraps
•   Heavy plastic sheets and tarps
•   Vinegar and baking soda to use in DIY cleaning supplies (**)
•   Condoms [old world latex ones (**) or currently manufactured sheep intestine ones]
•   Latex or Nitrile gloves in a variety of sizes (**)
•   Fishing gear (line, hooks, lures)
•   Knives of various types including fixed blades, kitchen knives, and box cutters.
•   Condiments and Spices
•   Paperback books on a variety of subjects (mostly technical)
•   Tobacco and cigarette rolling supplies
•   Amusements such as playing cards, crossword puzzle books, Sudoku
•   Pencils & paper
•   Pepper spray (**)
•   Garden seeds
•   Flashlights (powered by?)
•   Empty spray bottles and squirt bottles
•   Hand pumps for both air and liquids
•   Mylar blankets and tents
•   Sewing and mending supplies
•   Knitting or crochet needles and yarn
•   Electronics (computer chips, wiring, diodes)
•   Mechanical pieces (rust free valves, gear, wire, ball bearings, pipe or bags of screws)
•   Non-drug medical supplies (syringes, bandages, tubes)
•   Bullets (specific / rare ones)
•   Golden age memorabilia (pictures, maps and other media)
•   Vinyl Records?
•   Can Openers!
•   Candles
•   Compass
•   Precious metals and gems (gold and silver)

(**) these are the items I have doubt about being still operational/usable after 50 years, I´d love some feedback.

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Apocalypse World / Re: The Maestro D' and Barter
« on: September 12, 2014, 06:03:46 PM »
Why should a Maestro that does not have fingers in every pie not be heading towards bankruptcy at 1 barter a month? It just sounds like it's difficult to run a gin joint in Apocalypse World.

I just doesn't seem very realistic for a person to keep a business going if she needs to be working elsewhere to remedy the loses the damn thing imposes on her. Also, it is not just a gin joint, my player choose to have "drugs" as the main offering, supplemented by alcohol and sex (all pretty lucrative stuff in all historical scenarios, people will forfeit food for some of these) - and I´m betting all of those choices are pretty frequent in AW games :D

I don't have the pdf handy, does the Maestro d' not have a section describing barter on the back of the playbook?
If that is missing I could understand your confusion

Then you do (understand my confusion)  :D - to be completely honest, there is a barter session, but it only covers the cost of things (the same that is repeated in all playbooks: "1-barter might count for: a night in high luxe and..."). It has no information on what the Maestro does to get money. The "If you’re charging someone wealthy for your services..." block is simply not there. The Operator and Hardholder are also like this, but they have moves to make up for it.

the Maestro has things beyond the basic venue that are worth barter... What's it worth to a pair of gang leaders to have a private meeting on neutral ground? The Maestro can make it happen. Want some private time with one of the dancers? Sure but that's a premium service. Does Balls owe the Holder money? Well he's a regular and the maestro can collect for a cut. Need someone dead? Devil With A Blade and Give Me A Motive are nasty. The Operator has Moonlighting but the Maestro has the skill set to get out there and hustle in play.

Nice! That´s exactly what I was looking for. I´m starting to see the Maestro D as a buyer and seller of information, or a facilitator. Does that make him too much alike the operator?

Would you say "a special meeting in neutral ground", "some private info on someone important" or "the location of someone currently hiding" are worth one barter? That would give an operator a way to get money with it´s other moves (without introducing a new move).

I figure a guy running an establishment is going to be able to support himself on the margins anyway. Just like how the Hardholder doesn't have to worry about having a place to live or paying for dinner. 

I agree with you, at the very least I won´t make this guy buy the 1-barter monthly living expenses (but once again, the Hardholde playbook says that´s the case explicitly, the Maestro D doesn't)

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Apocalypse World / Re: The Maestro D' and Barter
« on: September 09, 2014, 11:03:45 PM »
I understand that it is much more interesting to play out any "barter gainage", but the Maestro playbook still seems at odds with what has been done in all the other playbooks.

Even less "businessman oriented" playbooks have guidelines on how a person like that gets money. Take the Gunlugger "one month’s employment as thug-on-hand" is worth one barter. Fair enough. Any MC worth his salt will, of course, make that month interesting... but we know what's the going rate (even if only to allow players to try and haggle for more). Now, the more "endowed" characters have even straight out mechanical ways to get barter (Operator, Hocus and Hardholder roll for it), and those barter gaining moves also present delicious opportunities for mayhem when they fail. It seems odd that the Maestro has neither one nor the other.

There's also the matter of relative values and living expenses. When we read that a Brainer can get 1 barter for "one week’s employment as kept brainer" we establish that their services are much more valued than the Gunlugger (1 barter/ month in such a passive job) or a  Hocus (also 1/month for counseling or ceremonial duties). We are either left in the dark as to the value of the Maestro business or implicitly told that it is not profitable at all. Or even worse... somewhere in the book it is stated that we should make the characters buy the "month’s living expenses, if your tastes aren’t too grand" whenever we feel that sufficient time has gone by (or we need to get them off their fat bottoms). If that's also true for the Maestro D, a "fingerless" Maestro is actually moving towards bankruptcy at -1 barter per month. Of course he can just take a gun (or a gang, if he went for that) and go rob people or something, but any other character can do that (some do it better in fact).

Please don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to just be critic or something. I'm trying to get the angle on this character and see what other people have done with it. I've it firm in my mind that the Maestro gets at least 1 barter a month (which cancels living expenses), but I'm still pondering on how much more it could get when the wind is favorable, and what kind of downsides there are when they are not. That sound a lot like a move to me (if I got this game right). Am I missing something? Does this guy has some great perk I am missing which counterbalances him not having a surplus/want kind of move? Will I break the game in his favor if I make one?

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Apocalypse World / Re: The Maestro D' and Barter
« on: September 09, 2014, 08:25:11 PM »
I've always MCed that the establishment is self-sufficient, provided the player doesn't miss a roll. We had a Maestro d' in our last game and when he missed rolls I looked through crosshairs at his bar: a power outage occurred, somebody stole his fresh whiskey, and one of his employees tried to take over the business.

When I played a Maestro d' I never once rolled a 10+ with fingers in every pie and so I was always struggling to get what I wanted and trying to make what I had work. The MC in that game was kind enough never to hit me with a really hard MC move when I blew that roll since I had terrible luck with that character.

The barter moves and fingers in every pie don't need extra bells and whistles or extra rules to make the Maestro d's life harder because the MC agenda, principles, and moves provide enough for you to challenge the PC.

That's exactly my doubt here, your whole answer seems to assume the character has the fingers in every pie move. What if he doesn't (that's an optional move, right?), what roll would the character miss to get problems with his bar (or other business), how can he ever get profit out of it?

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Apocalypse World / Re: The Maestro D' and Barter
« on: September 09, 2014, 10:54:37 AM »
What if the Maestro D' doesn't choose Fingers in Every Pie as a move? Is he just breaking even with his business, no barter whatsoever from there? Is this move kinda obligatory if you want to have money?

Also: can "Fingers in Every Pie" be used to get barter? (say the fellow wants to make reserves to some unforeseen future need). 

Sorry for the forum necromancy, I though it was better than reset the discussion. I've just started my first AW campaign and this is the first question to rise (the guys with the Maestro D' goes like "how come my character is the only one with no means to get money. I though I would be good on that side, maybe not Hardholder rich, but at least on par with the Operator").

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