Hardholder's Wealth

  • 12 Replies
  • 5183 Views
Hardholder's Wealth
« on: February 16, 2017, 11:35:43 AM »
Wealth (hardholder): If your hold is secure and your rule
unchallenged, at the beginning of the session, roll+hard. On a 10+,
you have surplus at hand and available for the needs of the session.


Does, "for the needs of the session" mean that the barter disappears after the session?

*

lumpley

  • 1293
Re: Hardholder's Wealth
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2017, 12:13:04 PM »
Yes!

-Vincent

Re: Hardholder's Wealth
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2017, 09:15:46 PM »
Another quick question - If the Hardholder scavenges and retrieves some oddments worth 1 barter, does he get to carry those forward to the next session, or does it disappear like the barter from the wealth roll?

Re: Hardholder's Wealth
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2017, 09:52:15 PM »
Another quick question - If the Hardholder scavenges and retrieves some oddments worth 1 barter, does he get to carry those forward to the next session, or does it disappear like the barter from the wealth roll?

I'd certainly assume they keep them, nothing says they can't after all.

Re: Hardholder's Wealth
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2017, 12:17:41 AM »
Oh, interesting!

So, in 2nd Ed, unless your hardholder has been saving up barter or rolls a 10+, he has to spend barter for his lifestyle every session, like everyone else?

I find it hard to imagine a hardholder working "gigs". Is that how it goes - or does it play differently in your game?

Re: Hardholder's Wealth
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2017, 12:39:45 AM »
Paul,

Not quite. The hardholder's playbook also includes this passage, under BARTER:
Quote
Your holding provides for your day-to-day living, so while you’re there governing it, you need not spend barter for your lifestyle at the beginning of the session.

In times of abundance, your holding’s surplus is yours to spend personally as you see fit. (Suppose that your citizen’s lives are the more abundant too, in proportion.) You can see what 1-barter is worth, from the above. For better stuff, be prepared to make unique arrangements, probably by treating with another hardholder nearby.
That's all separate from the start-of-session wealth roll. Your day-to-day survival is taken care of by the hold even if you don't get any surplus to throw around. (Though I'd expect the MC to make you starve a bit if "famine" comes up as a want, for example.)


Colvin,

I concur that if you get stuff from other means (e.g. you spend a session pillaging a rival hold and return with a bunch of awesome war trophies), it's reasonable to keep it around from session to session. Going scavenging seems like a waste of time for a hardholder, though. And if you're making your underlings do it, that's probably part of the per-session wealth roll.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 12:48:49 AM by Alex_P »

Re: Hardholder's Wealth
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2017, 09:57:32 AM »
Alex,
I hadn't thought about the fact that if he has his underlings helping him, it would probably just be part of the scavenging gig they do anyways for the hardhold and thus part of the per-session wealth roll.

Re: Hardholder's Wealth
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2017, 05:10:22 PM »
Alex,

Awesome. Thanks!

Re: Hardholder's Wealth
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2017, 04:49:44 AM »
So wait. If my total barter surplus is +3 does that mean if I roll in surplus at the beginning of the session I have 3 spending barter? And if so, if I choose not to spend it (as it's my personal cut of my hardholder) can I roll it over into the next session regardless of my next wealth roll? Also a dumb question, what's the standard staring spending barter for a hardholder? Is it my starting surplus? Feels kinda low for a Warlord.

Re: Hardholder's Wealth
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2017, 04:59:15 AM »
Also, a hardholder gets 40 violent bastards starting, so does that mean he has absolute command over others in the hardhold? Like if a hardhold has a population of 150 to 200 can he technically command them around, take barter from them, March them into combat, mass manipulate them?

Re: Hardholder's Wealth
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 05:19:46 AM »
So wait. If my total barter surplus is +3 does that mean if I roll in surplus at the beginning of the session I have 3 spending barter?

Yes. The barter you get is equal to your surplus.

And if so, if I choose not to spend it (as it's my personal cut of my hardholder) can I roll it over into the next session regardless of my next wealth roll?

No. It goes away if unspent.

Also a dumb question, what's the standard staring spending barter for a hardholder? Is it my starting surplus? Feels kinda low for a Warlord.

Yep, it's the surplus. And remember that Hardholders don't have living expenses at all, so it goes a bit further than it might seem. Plus they don't have to pay salaries to their gang or anything, basic expenses are deducted before you get to the surplus (so your actual income is more like 40-60 Barter, plus other expenses, plus your surplus...it's just that not paying your gang isn't really an option). And you actually have unlimited additional Barter for purposes of gifts to people you sleep with...

Really, Hardholders feel pretty rich in play. They never need to actually worry about money to live, and have some for incidentals when they want them, and can start with just about whatever gear they want. And actually, the fact that their Barter goes away every session makes them feel richer since they can spend it like there's no tomorrow. Only the Maestro'D feels richer (since they can get anything via 'Fingers in every pie'). Everyone else (except for Hocus, which feels similar to Hardholder in many ways) might have more Barter occasionally, but it goes quick so they feel the need to save it, not spend it. And that's what being rich is, the ability to spend money without worrying about it.

Also, a hardholder gets 40 violent bastards starting, so does that mean he has absolute command over others in the hardhold? Like if a hardhold has a population of 150 to 200 can he technically command them around, take barter from them, March them into combat, mass manipulate them?

He can command them (ie: force them to do what he wants like give him Barter) as much as his gang allows him to, though there will be repercussions. He can persuade them en masse if he has leverage (and he usually does, lets be honest)...but so can anyone else. Really, there's no limit other than logic to who you can Go Aggro on or Manipulate, regardless of playbook. A Hardholder using his gang as a weapon can Go Aggro on his citizens very effectively, and one who has things they want can Manipulate them.

He can't command the population as a whole with Leadership, though. Or use them as a weapon in battle or when Going Aggro. Those require a gang, and, well, they aren't one. They aren't an organized military force, heck a fair number are probably small children.

Re: Hardholder's Wealth
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2017, 05:36:37 AM »
Quote
Those require a gang, and, well, they aren't one.

Aren't they though? Honest question here.

My interpretation has always been that a gang is just a sufficiently large group of people. So if the hardholder gathered up his entire population and sent them to war, he would have a large gang (or maybe depending on population, a new category, a huge gang). Sure, their weaponry and amor most likely stink (to the extent of having only their bare hands), and morale probably isn't good. But if you can get 200 people to ambush the traders in the market place, they are still going to do some damage. You could just resolve that on the fly. Or you could use the gang rules.

Re: Hardholder's Wealth
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 06:58:54 AM »
Aren't they though? Honest question here.

Well, it rather depends on what you mean by a gang. They're a group of people, and if they wind up fighting someone en masse you'd use the gang rules, yeah, but they aren't an organized group one can command to do things and expect to be obeyed. And to be a gang, you need to be organized, or united in a purpose anyway. Most populations are not such a group and cannot be made so readily.

My interpretation has always been that a gang is just a sufficiently large group of people. So if the hardholder gathered up his entire population and sent them to war, he would have a large gang (or maybe depending on population, a new category, a huge gang). Sure, their weaponry and amor most likely stink (to the extent of having only their bare hands), and morale probably isn't good. But if you can get 200 people to ambush the traders in the market place, they are still going to do some damage. You could just resolve that on the fly. Or you could use the gang rules.

Okay, let me put it another way: They may be a gang under certain circumstances, but they aren't your gang. They live in your city, but they don't necessarily do what you say, and aren't united in any way. They certainly don't do as you say if it's risky to them. There are moves that let you make any group of people you talk to a gang ('Frenzy' from the Hocus leaps to mind)...but those specifically unite them, and the Hardholder doesn't have one at all.