Rules Question: Good in a Clinch and restriction on car stats for special moves

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The driver in my group has Good in a Clinch, switching Under Fire's stat from Cool to Sharp. She also has No Shit Driver, which allows her to add her car's power to her Under Fire rolls. All seemed clear with this playbook, until I stumbled across the following in the full rulebook on page 223:

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Drivers get to add their cars’ stats to most of their basic moves — notably excluding the ones that call for a roll+sharp or a roll+weird — but not to any of their special moves[emphasis mine].

From how I read it, this means that car stats can't be added to Good in a Clinch. Has there been clarification on this? I feel like that's a rather major caveat to not include in the playbook itself.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 02:29:37 PM by VerdantSF »

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noclue

  • 609
The section you quoted is descriptive not prescriptive. No Shit Driver lists a bunch of basic moves and none of the special moves are listed. The move allows the Driver to add the car when doing something under fire, which is a basic move. The move Good In Cinch tells the Driver what to roll when doing something under fire, but they're still doing something under fire.
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER

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Munin

  • 417
I think the point here is that the quoted section mentions rolls that add Sharp or Weird. By taking a stat-substitution move, you are rolling +Sharp when acting under fire. The question becomes, does that then disqualify acting under fire from adding the car's stats.

Keep in mind that the relevant vehicular stat is probably +2, and that as a Sharp-based playbook, the Driver has at least +2 Sharp, and likely +3 after just a few advances. If you stack these modifiers, you're looking at +5 to acting under fire when behind the wheel - you cannot fail. That may be by design, but I think the question is a legitimate one and your answer does not clearly resolve it.

Speaking only for myself, if the Driver is rolling +Sharp or +Weird (no matter the circumstances) he or she does not add the vehicle's Power or Looks to the roll. That's how I interpret those passages taken collectively, but I freely admit that I might be doing it other than as it was intended.

Now this just nerfs the Driver to an extreme especially since as far as I can tell once you take a move like Good in a Clinch it replaces your ability to use the previous stat. Maybe you can still choice the other way.  It doesn't help that any other playbook can take that move and suddenly be rolling +5 or +6 as well.

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"...if you do something under fire add your car's power to the roll."

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"Drivers get to add their cars’ stats to most of their basic moves
— notably excluding the ones that call for a roll+sharp or a
roll+weird — but not to any of their special moves."

Using this wording, sure you could say using good a clinch excludes you from adding your car's power to the roll. I would argue though that the point of A no shit driver is to make you better at the basic moves it specifically lists. Otherwise it actually makes less sense to take good in a clinch since you are going to be behind the wheel most of the time anyway due being a driver and all.

My other argument is that Good in a clinch may be a move but you aren't making that move when you are doing something under fire. You are still using do something under fire but it has been enhanced by the Good in a clinch move.

Hey maybe I'm wrong but you don't start with +3 in any stats or get +3 in any of the vehicle profiles by default so you as the MC can keep it from getting out of hand to start but as the characters grow what's wrong with them making it every time? Unless they get 10+ they are still going to be paying for the roll in some way or another.

tldr

Good a in clinch shouldn't stop you from adding car's power to a do something underfire roll as a driver.

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Munin

  • 417
Actually, I think you're right. a no shit driver is listed under the "modify a roll or rolls" portion of the "Moves' Architecture" section (AW p 282), right alongside help or interfere and read a sitch[/I], both if which can give you a +1 bonus to your next roll regardless of whatever else you're adding from your stats.

So belay my last. If a no shit driver who's good in a clinch wants to do something daring and crazy enough to count as acting under fire while behind the wheel of a car, he or she should be mostly unstoppable. So go ahead and pop that 18-wheeler up on 9 wheels and weave between the land-mines planted at the narrow spot in the canyon. Hell yeah! And if you're unlucky enough to only get a partial, well, I hope your passengers were hangin' on tight!  :)

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So go ahead and pop that 18-wheeler up on 9 wheels and weave between the land-mines planted at the narrow spot in the canyon.

See now I've got to do that.  But lets not forget that there are rules for giving minuses for difficult tasks.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 01:18:12 AM by LtKobold »


Maybe but those rules are terrible and nobody should ever use them.

I am with the 'they definitely can' camp, for the record. If your rules interpretation sounds like a 'gotcha' then you need to reread the Principles -- unexpected interactions should never negate the obvious benefits of the moves in question.