Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?

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Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« on: October 09, 2013, 03:08:58 AM »
A situation came up during yesterdays play. Our brainer was doing a speech in front of the holdning on the behalf of the hardholder (who is now an NPC). The audience is not very fond of the brainer at all and have started calling her witch and other bad things, rightfully i might add.

So, the during her speech the audience is getting more and more agitated. And I describe how some people are staring to pick up rocks and stuff to throw. I'm just about to describe how the rocks get thrown when the skinner who is on the stage but in the background jumps in front of the brainer and start to play a tune on his fiddle. He claims he performs Artful and Gracious.

Do you think this is an ok application of the move? When I look at the results from the move all of them are about influencing individuals and not controlling a  brewing mob. The move I'd say is more applicable is the Hocus move Frenzy, but it wasn't available to the skinner.

Should I have done the setup differently as MC to avoid this situation at all?

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noclue

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Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2013, 05:05:37 AM »
It's a great use of Artful & Gracious. The Skinner rolls, gets a ten and you have them single out NPCs and pick from the list. Done. Does that control the brewing mob? Not really. But it might get them fighting amongst themselves, especially if the Skinner is sharp enough to through a Read a Sitch in there and figure out who the leaders are. Your NPCs have simple motivations and they now have something to care about.
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER

Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2013, 01:07:14 PM »
If the mob is already turning, then the skinner may not be able to perform. The move says "when you perform" not "when you want to perform, everyone stops and lets you"

A good roll on the move opens those options for you, but if the skinner isn't able to take the stage efficiently, he can't perform properly, and therefore doesn't get to make the roll.

It's a good time to use the move, though! I probably would have just had them roll manipulate against the crowd to stop them throwing rocks, the leverage being "you don't get to hear my beautiful performance."

Really, it's up to you, the MC. Maybe the skinners performance alone is enough to give the crowd pause. Rules as written, though, I don't think it is.

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DannyK

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Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2013, 06:48:13 PM »
If the Skinner character doesn't have An Arresting Skinner, they don't have the right tool to stop an angry mob dead in its tracks, I think, but jumping into a tense situation (that isn't quite an angry mob yet) and defusing it with a performance seems like classic Skinner behavior to me.  If the player rolls well, let the move play out.  Maybe the crowd shuts up and listens, and now it's waiting for the Skinner to say something to the crowd instead. Afterwards, you can have the NPC hardholder chew out the Brainer and say that he/she would have been killed if the Skinner hadn't stepped in... always be building triangles and splitting the players apart. 

The answer to your second question is no, it really goes counter to the rules and spirit of Apocalypse World to try to structure situations to force a certain outcome.  If there's an angry crowd, let whichever PC is there use their Moves and connections to deal with it as best they can -- for the Skinner it might be a performance, the Brainer might start brain-puppeting the ringleaders, a Gunlugger can shoot over the heads of the crowd, and an Angel might just have to say that's he/she isn't going to tend the wounds of anybody so stupid as to start a riot at the hardholder's palace and maybe that would be enough.  Just let it play out and take those events and throw them back at the players, hard. 

Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2013, 07:01:33 AM »
Great discussion from all of you! Thanks!

If I got a do over I'd let the Skinner do a manipulate roll to get the attention. If successful, he'd be able to do the artful and gracious. He could then use the results to influence the ringleaders and a fight might have broken out among the crowd or something like that.

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lumpley

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Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2013, 08:53:57 AM »
It would also be reasonable to have the skinner act under fire to capture the mob's attention.

-Vincent

Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2013, 10:01:25 AM »
I like the idea with an act under fire. If you get a 7-9 you could make the Skinner choose between getting hit by some stones before the crowd stops and listen to him or letting the Brainer suffer the full attack and just watch =)

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Radan

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Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2015, 05:24:08 PM »
What about the move "Artful & gracious" with SWORDMASTERY? I mean, can it be used to attack people like in the Asian movies - all with the outcome "has to give a gift" meaning hold over (any) weapon (any) enemy got before the move? Even NOT TO really HARM anyone - just to GO THROUGH them... See some kung-fu movie, where the hero is going through enemies, taking their weapons - and after that all are ALIVE (and even not hurted)... It is more SKINNER move then Battlebabe (or even Gunlugger), not?!
Preparing "RESOURCE RESUPPLY RUN - SETTING SCENARIOs"! - therefore QUESTIONS FOR BARTERs, GIGs etc.

Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2015, 06:46:32 PM »
I played a skinner swordsman once. The Artful & Gracious move only worked when he performed Katas and taught others because if you used it as a combat move you'd breeze through entire fights without really testing a typically non-combat playbook. While being a fan and maintaining balance the MC suggested getting Devil With a Bladeand said Art & Gracious could be rolled in the aftermath of fights, and influence how people reacted to them.

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noclue

  • 609
Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2015, 08:59:00 PM »
What about the move "Artful & gracious" with SWORDMASTERY? I mean, can it be used to attack people like in the Asian movies - all with the outcome "has to give a gift" meaning hold over (any) weapon (any) enemy got before the move? Even NOT TO really HARM anyone - just to GO THROUGH them... See some kung-fu movie, where the hero is going through enemies, taking their weapons - and after that all are ALIVE (and even not hurted)... It is more SKINNER move then Battlebabe (or even Gunlugger), not?!
Sure. You want to do a sword fight as performance? I don't see a problem with that. You won't do any damage, but you can make the Artful and Gracious move.
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER

Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2015, 12:20:35 AM »

Assuming you have the opportunity to perform. Artful & Gracious doesn't transform random people into audience members -- it triggers when you have an audience already.

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noclue

  • 609
Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2015, 02:34:28 AM »

Assuming you have the opportunity to perform. Artful & Gracious doesn't transform random people into audience members -- it triggers when you have an audience already.

If I can't turn a random mob into an audience, I don't deserve to be called The Skinner ;)

BTW, good example of Artful & Gracious used in PvP in this video at around 1:19
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 03:05:13 AM by noclue »
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER

Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2015, 02:37:26 PM »
What about the move "Artful & gracious" with SWORDMASTERY? I mean, can it be used to attack people like in the Asian movies - all with the outcome "has to give a gift" meaning hold over (any) weapon (any) enemy got before the move? Even NOT TO really HARM anyone - just to GO THROUGH them... See some kung-fu movie, where the hero is going through enemies, taking their weapons - and after that all are ALIVE (and even not hurted)... It is more SKINNER move then Battlebabe (or even Gunlugger), not?!

To do it, do it, right? So what's your swordmaster doing? I mean, you're not doing damage because you're not going aggro or seizing by force, you're not acting under fire (unless you are) from other people swinging their swords back at you. So that sounds more like that scene where Bruce Lee or Tiger Claw (Six String Samurai) jumps down, squares off with his opponent and does some showy moves to try and intimidate him. Maybe you'e so impressive his boss wants to hire you now.

If its in the middle of an active fight, yeah, I'd say that's Acting Under Fire as the people on he other side try to kill you while you try to show off. So failing the Artful roll wouldn't get you stabbed but failing the Act Under Fire would.

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Ebok

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Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2015, 01:40:54 PM »
Quote
If I can't turn a random mob into an audience, I don't deserve to be called The Skinner ;)

BTW, good example of Artful & Gracious used in PvP in this video at around 1:19

Just felt the need to mention, that the example given here also presents a few things that should be addressed. The first is that the guy with the shotgun can always attempt to interfere with the skinners singing / performance, potentially giving her a -2 to the roll and only being subject to one of the results. Second, in combat, it should be clarified how someone is going to be acting before the roll takes place, not simply "I am going to sing now", but "I walk over, and begin to sing, slowly at first but then loudly, putting myself between the shotgun guy and my patron" That way the conditions of the move are known Before the roll takes place, allowing the other people to potentially act to help / interfere more fluidly. Finally, at ANY point, the guy with the shotgun could just pull the trigger. They are under no obligation to listen to the performance or allow the performance to interrupt their actions. (This would not be acting under fire, this would be letting the skinner make an interference roll to well... interfere with the shotgun guys move)

Just some food for thought.

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T.G.

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Re: Artful and Gracious to stop brewing mob?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2015, 12:26:03 PM »
Further food for thought, the scene worked great and played out well with the characters involved, however in discussing interference to possibly limit the Skinner it bears pointing out that Artful & Gracious as written targets only NPC audience members.