Why are grenades at hand range?

Little off subjects (Except that it's combat) but I would dearly love to see a play example of the advanced combat moves in use.

I'd like to see some guidelines for IED's, carbombs, and stickybombs.  In a world of walled compounds and armored trucks, the bombmaker is going to be in high demand. 

This seems like the savvyhead's area...

"Hey MC I want to make a carbomb that will do like 6 harm area messy"
"Hmm... well you need some special ingredients, and a car, and you might have to try a few times to get the detonator working right..."

Within arm's reach is more accurate than shouting distance. But whatever. Stupid argument.

When I think of close I think of like just outside of arm's reach up to shouting distance.

Let me reiterate.

Quote from: DannyK on September 09, 2010, 02:25:01 AM

I'd like to see some guidelines for IED's, carbombs, and stickybombs.  In a world of walled compounds and armored trucks, the bombmaker is going to be in high demand. 

This seems like the savvyhead's area...

"Hey MC I want to make a carbomb that will do like 6 harm area messy"
"Hmm... well you need some special ingredients, and a car, and you might have to try a few times to get the detonator working right..."

That sounds great. Savvyhead FTW.

Messy assumes area, though, doesn't it?  It may or may not hit anyone in the area?  If you already have area, messy is a downgrade.

Messy assumes area, though, doesn't it?  It may or may not hit anyone in the area?  If you already have area, messy is a downgrade.

I think messy is just one of those tags the MC has to use for descriptions. If it's messy, it's going to leave a big mess of blood, guts and brain matter.

Like, a pain-wave projector isn't messy, but it's area.

Quote from: Jim D. on September 09, 2010, 09:43:43 AM

Messy assumes area, though, doesn't it?  It may or may not hit anyone in the area?  If you already have area, messy is a downgrade.

I think messy is just one of those tags the MC has to use for descriptions. If it's messy, it's going to leave a big mess of blood, guts and brain matter.

Like, a pain-wave projector isn't messy, but it's area.

No, area means that it hits everyone in an area. Messy includes loud and also means that the MC picks and chooses who is hit or not.

Quote from: Michael Pfaff on September 09, 2010, 09:48:17 AM

Quote from: Jim D. on September 09, 2010, 09:43:43 AM

Messy assumes area, though, doesn't it?  It may or may not hit anyone in the area?  If you already have area, messy is a downgrade.

I think messy is just one of those tags the MC has to use for descriptions. If it's messy, it's going to leave a big mess of blood, guts and brain matter.

Like, a pain-wave projector isn't messy, but it's area.

No, area means that it hits everyone in an area. Messy includes loud and also means that the MC picks and chooses who is hit or not.

Messy can include loud. It's a "cue" which means it's a trigger for the MC to add descriptive elements. And, it might miss a given person in its area.

Messy (cue): it’s loud (cf ). Furthermore, it might hit every person in its area but might miss any given person in its area; and it leaves a mess behind — cosmetic property damage, blood and gore, barf or shit or other bodily produce, or some other kind of mess as appropriate.

(pg 238) ...third, cues recommending something for you to say about them.

Yeah, it's loud.

Yeah, it's loud.

Sure, it can be. Cues are recommendations for the MC to say something descriptive about them. If the MC deems a particular messy weapon potentially loud, she should describe it as such. If the MC deems a particular messy weapon to leave a mess of gore behind, she should describe it as such.

It's a distinct difference from area, which is a mechanical tag.

No, it just gets Loud, which is a also a cue. No one's arguing here. We're now just in one of your ridiculous semantics arguments. I get how messy works.

No, area means that it hits everyone in an area. Messy includes loud and also means that the MC picks and chooses who is hit or not.

The above is entirely correct.

No, it just gets Loud, which is a also a cue. No one's arguing here. We're now just in one of your ridiculous semantics arguments. I get how messy works.

You're the one arguing semantics.

No, area means that it hits everyone in an area. Messy includes loud and also means that the MC picks and chooses who is hit or not.

The above is entirely correct.

Which was a direct response to:

I think messy is just one of those tags the MC has to use for descriptions. If it's messy, it's going to leave a big mess of blood, guts and brain matter.

Like, a pain-wave projector isn't messy, but it's area.

Which is correct.

It's a cue, distinct from mechanical. Two different types of tags. That's not semantics. That's just fact.

Just like "loud" and "intimate" are two different types of tags.

Which was a direct response to:

Quote from: Michael Pfaff on September 09, 2010, 09:48:17 AM

I think messy is just one of those tags the MC has to use for descriptions. If it's messy, it's going to leave a big mess of blood, guts and brain matter.

Like, a pain-wave projector isn't messy, but it's area.

Which is correct.

No, it's not. Messy kills almost everyone there, but the GM can leave someone(s) alive. In addition, it's loud. It's not just for descriptions, which is what you said.


Then you responded with:

Messy can include loud. It's a "cue" which means it's a trigger for the MC to add descriptive elements. And, it might miss a given person in its area.

..which is obvious and built into the past statement, since "it's loud" refers you to the entry for loud, which says it's a cue.

Great talk.

No, it's not. Messy kills almost everyone there, but the GM can leave someone(s) alive. In addition, it's loud. It's not just for descriptions, which is what you said.

Cues are recommendations.

• sawed-off (3-harm close reload messy)

This seems like a good "messy" weapon to potentially hit targets in the area that you may not have intended to. Same for grenades and shit. It's also going to destroy some property likely and fuck some bodies up. The loud blast is likely to wake up a whole block.

• crowbar (2-harm hand messy)

Taking a crowbar to someone's face isn't likely to destroy much property or even hit many other people. But, it's certainly going to leave plenty of blood and gore around and might make someone shit their pants. The metal on flesh packing sound might make some peeps wake up nearby too.

Great talk.

Great talk indeed. Clearly there's some confusion about the messy tag.

Video games are absurdly poor examples of the behavior of real weapons.

I wouldn't dream of arguing with that.  I might say, however, that I'd rather look to video games for cues for AW than real life, but YMMV.  I'm sure everyone has their own preferred level of realism for the game.  

Grenades can be thrown to about 30 yards max, while a shotgun [ . . . ]  The real limiter in range is how well you can aim the thing; with no stock or front sight you're not hitting much beyond spitting distance.

So... pretty similar effective range, then?  ;)