Passive moves

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Re: Passive moves
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2012, 05:01:34 PM »
To put it another way, he does all this work trying to sneak up, to avoid getting shot... he works his way up, finally gets there, sneaks around the outside of the structure, trying to decide how he's going to get in and sneak up on a gunman...and then I go, "Oh, he's gone. Nothing there. Sorry"?

Sounds like bad gamemastering to me. Not fun for the people playing.

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noclue

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Re: Passive moves
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2012, 05:12:13 PM »
To put it another way, he does all this work trying to sneak up, to avoid getting shot... he works his way up, finally gets there, sneaks around the outside of the structure, trying to decide how he's going to get in and sneak up on a gunman...and then I go, "Oh, he's gone. Nothing there. Sorry"?

Sounds like bad gamemastering to me. Not fun for the people playing.
But that's exactly what you did. Only you made him make a roll first that should tell him where his enemy's true position is (somewhere else), what he should be on the look out for (um...dust balls), etc.

If he sneaks across and bursts into an empty room, you give him all the detail and apocalyptic color your heart desires about the room, the cigarette butt he's left burning, the acrid smell of him....Why is it better to make him roll and then not give him answers because they're not there to be found? The character is searching a room, he's entitled to that action, it's not necessarily a Move.

A charged situation is a situation with tension that's ready to blow. When the character reads it, the MC knows basically what their options are. On a miss, it's easy. The charge goes off. What's your move if the dude missed his read a sitch on the empty room?

I stand by what I said.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 05:17:21 PM by noclue »
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER

Re: Passive moves
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2012, 08:01:42 PM »
"What's the sniper's true position?"

"You're looking through the crack between the boards of the wall, and it's all quiet and empty in there. If it was me, I would have lit out of there the second after I fired. It's all barren field to the North, so... South probably? In the tall trees there. Great place to hide and shoot anyone that follows me."

Re: Passive moves
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2012, 08:42:08 PM »
"What's the sniper's true position?"

"You're looking through the crack between the boards of the wall, and it's all quiet and empty in there. If it was me, I would have lit out of there the second after I fired. It's all barren field to the North, so... South probably? In the tall trees there. Great place to hide and shoot anyone that follows me."

and that is a good point since he basically high tailed it out of there into the badlands to the North and then circled back to join the "guards" of the colonel since it turns out...he's one of them. :-)

Re: Passive moves
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2016, 09:18:52 AM »
Hello, first time poster, long time lurker here. Necroe'd this thread as it was the most relevant regarding to my question and situation.

I'd like to MC a scenario, where the party is escorting a motor convoy through the wasteland and they are being ambushed by bandits. How bandits operate is by using roadside bombs /mines to stall the convoy and then attacking head on. The start of the scene should play out two ways:

a) The party notices the bomb and can then take defensive measures, possibly gaining leverage over bandits as they are now expecting the ambush and are not in fact getting bombed.

b) The bomb goes off damaging the some vehicles in a convoy and possibly stalling it. Ambushers attack.

I'd like the ambush to be a surprise to both characters and players and I think the suggested "Spider sense is tingling - roll 'read sitch'/'do something under fire'" would spoil the surprise. How would you approach a scene like this, offering the party a chance to discover the explosives without explicitly or implicitly stating that something bad is going to happen?

Re: Passive moves
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2016, 12:39:00 PM »
Announce future badness
Maybe drop some hints that something might be off. Is this is the modus operandi of the bandits? Pepper your description of the journey and the road with some burned out husks of previous victims. An npc along for the ride who's a little twitchy, maybe they've heard rumors, maybe they're an insider, maybe they have a deathwish/axe to grind with the bandits and are hoping to run into them, whatever fits being a fan of your players most.

Result of a hard move
It's well within reason to trigger the trap on a hard move. Doesn't have to be related to the roll. You can try bait this out by giving them things to do with rolls during the "safe bit" at the start as you establish a nice atmosphere. Maybe there's a convoy vehicle that could use the savvy head's touch. Maybe there's an npc dispute for the touchstone. Angel patients, that sort of thing. They'll be too busy doing what they do best to suspect. Until an unlucky roll happens...

Inflict harm (as established).
Just trigger the trap. If the scene is dragging and no one has done anything to detect it, or rolled <7. Really remember to be a fan of the players with this one.

Re: Passive moves
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2016, 01:35:40 PM »
First of all, I want to strongly disagree with the use of Act Under Fire as a saving throw, since that's not what it is. The MC doesn't tell the players what their characters do, just provide them opportunities to react. So you should never say, "You feel a sense of unease; roll AUF," and then tell them what they do based on the roll. Instead, say, "You feel a sense of unease [or whatever]; what do you do?" and then whatever they say their character does might be Acting Under Fire (if they say they drop to the ground, for example) but it might also be something else. (E.g. "I ignore it" is probably a golden opportunity for you to deal harm, no roll required.)

Now, that said, I understand your impulse to want to preserve the surprise, but I'd say forget about that. It isn't your job to surprise the characters or players. Rather, your job is to be a fan of the characters, make their lives not boring, and play to find out what happens. You have to at least implicitly tell them something bad is going to happen, because simply framing the scene does that. Unless the very first thing that happens in the scene is them getting blown up, the fact that you didn't skip ahead to the end of the journey implies that something is going to happen, and since this is AW, it probably isn't good. They're driving through bandit country, though, so it makes sense that they'd be on their guard anyway.

So go ahead and start off with that nice soft "announce future badness" move. What's the tell-tale sign of these explosives? Maybe the road, usually hard-packed dirt baked dry by the sun, has a dark patch where it's been dug up ahead. Tell the Driver that and ask, "What do you do?" Then play the scene out from there. If they keep driving, boom, inflict harm. If they stop and get out, maybe the bandits attack or maybe they set off the mines themselves, depending on their actions and the results of their rolls.

ETA: The "future badness" can be even earlier, too. When they set off, let them know this trip is going to be dangerous (they've heard rumors about the bandits, have had confrontations with them before, or just see the burnt-out cars along the road) and ask if they plan to do anything about it. Then use whatever they say going forward. "I'll keep a close eye for anything out of the ordinary" might qualify as Read A Sitch, and a successful roll will let them see the trap as they approach (any of "what's my enemy's true position," "where's my best way past," or "what should I be on the lookout for" will work here) and a failed roll will lead them straight into it. Maybe they'll reinforce their cars with armor before they leave in the hopes that they can plow right through any ambush, in which case you'll deal harm as established and see if they were right. Maybe they'll send one car up ahead of the caravan to trigger any ambushes, which the rest of the caravan can then go around, in which case you deal harm as established to the scout vehicle and ask what they do with the rest of the caravan. Or heck, maybe they'll just decide to go the long way 'round, through the burn flats instead of the marginally more habitable land around the main road.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 06:07:36 PM by JustusGS »

Re: Passive moves
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2016, 02:13:20 AM »
Thank you for your answers. Based on your input I think the best way to go is to make it clear before the scene, that the possibility for a bandit attack exists and is even likely (why else they would be hired to escort the convoy?).

Another method I was thinking is to move them to a natural formation such as a canyon. After telling them about it, I'll ask them what to do. If they search it they might find the bomb or the bandits. Driving through blindly is a bad idea. I think starting the scene at the canyon entrance makes sense, as possibility for a bandit attack exists and arriving to a location which is both tricky to navigate and limits vision naturally pauses the party to weigh their options. Maybe they take a detour and arrive to destination late causing their employer dissatisfaction.

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noclue

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Re: Passive moves
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2016, 02:21:49 AM »
Why don't you just start the game by asking them which vehicle explodes?
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER

Re: Passive moves
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2016, 04:29:35 AM »
Why don't you just start the game by asking them which vehicle explodes?

I don't know what to make of this. Care to elaborate?

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noclue

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Re: Passive moves
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2016, 11:02:35 AM »
Sure, I guess I'm suggesting your choice #2. If the goal is to surprise them with an ambush, I'd rather start blowing stuff up and then ask the players what they do about it. Starting them at a canyon that pauses the party and causing them to detour and upset their employers seems less grabby then just blowing up one of the cars, killing Bricker and blowing Anthrax's leg off, then opening up with a 50 caliber on the hill, bullets everywhere. Anthrax is screaming "My leg! My leg!" And you turn to the battle babe "So what do you do?"

So, I'd just turn to one of them and ask a leading question, like "where are you when Monarch's rig explodes?"
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 12:51:45 PM by noclue »
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER

Re: Passive moves
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2016, 11:15:49 PM »
Oh yeah, if this is the very first thing that happens, then just go with noclue's thing for sure. Starting in media res is awesome.

Re: Passive moves
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2016, 05:50:41 AM »
Sure, I guess I'm suggesting your choice #2. If the goal is to surprise them with an ambush, I'd rather start blowing stuff up and then ask the players what they do about it. Starting them at a canyon that pauses the party and causing them to detour and upset their employers seems less grabby then just blowing up one of the cars, killing Bricker and blowing Anthrax's leg off, then opening up with a 50 caliber on the hill, bullets everywhere. Anthrax is screaming "My leg! My leg!" And you turn to the battle babe "So what do you do?"

So, I'd just turn to one of them and ask a leading question, like "where are you when Monarch's rig explodes?"

I really like this and am probably going to use this, but my goal was to give players a chance to prevent being ambushed while simultaneously avoid laying out the ambush right out of the gate. Your approach will come handy though, if there hasn't been enough action in a while.

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noclue

  • 609
Re: Passive moves
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2016, 11:24:50 AM »
I really like this and am probably going to use this, but my goal was to give players a chance to prevent being ambushed while simultaneously avoid laying out the ambush right out of the gate.
Sure, I get that. I do wonder whether giving them a chance to avoid the ambush is a worthwhile goal.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 06:51:47 PM by noclue »
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER

Re: Passive moves
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2016, 06:24:34 PM »
I think that if you're not going to lay the ambush out right off ("suprise! now what do you do?"), you should make it clear to the players that there IS an ambush and it's likely going to be here. Start making soft moves - hints that things are wrong, and then ask them what they do. Let them Read a Sitch and all the usual stuff.

They still don't know what's going to happen or when - but the players won't be caught completely unawares. The characters, of course, could be caught unawares if they hand you opportunities for such or fail critical rolls.

In other words, the ambush is a zoomed-in version of the usual AW conversation:

MC: "It looks like there's danger heading your way! What do you do?"
PC: "I'll try X..."
MC: "Ok, you're acting under fire/some other move!"

PC rolls and we see if they manage to stay in control of the situation or get ambushed.

A sidenote:

Ambushes generally work best if there's some kind of competing pressure at work. If you have all the time in the world to go another way or poke at everything with a stick, it's not terribly interesting. In Mad Max, for instance, the characters often have to deal with ambush - or potential ambush - while in the middle of a choice. That makes the choices meaningful: you can slow down to check for tripwires, but then your pursuers might catch up with you.