Consentual

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Consentual
« on: June 14, 2012, 03:09:17 AM »
I think I've finally snagged three players to play Monsterhearts with me. After telling one of my players that I was going to push them into situations where their Moves would get them into trouble and using the Chosen's Sex Move as an example, one of them asked "So the choice will be either going to the hospital or raping someone?"

I thought about that and was sure I remembered someone saying that Sex Moves only triggered when the sex was consensual. Is that right? I couldn't seem to find that anywhere in the book though. Is that a rule, or is it intentionally left vague so that play groups can have their own, varying "comfort zones"?

Also, I just wanted to check the Fae's Sex Move. All the other Skins (except the Vampire) explicitly say "When you have sex..." while the Fae's says "When you lie naked with another..." One of my players read this literally and assumed the move will only trigger when you actually lie naked with another person. I said that I saw it as just another way to say "get it on" and it would be triggered from having sex just like the other Skin's moves. He agreed, but now I'm not so sure. Simply because all the other skins specifically say "when you have sex".

So is it meant to be a literal interpretation? Or is it just another way of saying "sleep with"? I'm pretty sure it's the latter, but clarification would be nice. :)
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Re: Consentual
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2012, 02:57:44 PM »
Reading the rules, it says "when you have sex..". Remember, you don't have sex with someone if you rape them, rape is something you do to someone, therefore sex is consetual. Rape is never mentioned.
I think the player (or you) mixed the sex move with the "turn someone on" move. You can turn anyone you want on (if you roll the dice right). That just means they get turned on, it doesn't imply that they must have sex with you, just that something you did turned them on.
You can't control what turns you on. You can't control your hormones, something that goes double for teens (and pregnant women, if my wife was anything to go by). What you do control is how you choose to react to being turned on.
Look at real life. I pass pretty girl with a nice smile, or a cute butt, or a nice chest, or sparkling eyes in the street, hell yes I can get turned on (and I'm 35 years old, far from a teen). Doesn't mean I jump their bones right then and there, or later for that matter. It just meant I got turned on.

As for the fey sex move, "when you like naked with another", as I interpret it, doesn't necessarily mean having sex, although it's certainly possible that that's what happened. The way I read it is "when you're physically intimate". After all, when you lie naked with someone, it's not necessarily sexual, you can have sex without it being intimate, but when you lie naked with someone, you're vulnerable and close to them. You bare yourself open to them.

Hope you found my musings useful.

Re: Consensual
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2012, 11:24:40 PM »
Oh no no no. I totally get the Turn Someone On move. I left some comments on the GaW site about how this move doesn't demand any kind of reaction from the character, it just dictates that they get turned on.

A big thank you to mcdaldno for expressly stating that the Turn Someone On move works on anyone, regardless of gender, sexual identity, or preference. I don't know if my players will ever have the courage or inclination to use it in anything other than a heterosexual way, but I love how the move is applied evenly across the board. I also really like how you can Turn Someone On accidentally or without actually doing anything. You can just describe how attractive something about your character is a roll.

Reading the rules, it says "when you have sex..". Remember, you don't have sex with someone if you rape them, rape is something you do to someone, therefore sex is consensual.

This is a line of discussion that I don't really want to go down, but I think there's a strong case to define rape as "sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury". In my mind, rape is non-consensual or forced sex, which would trigger a character's Sex Move so long as sexual intercourse occurred. I can also see people defining "sex" as something consensual that happens between people who care for each other. As I said though, that really is a separate discussion.

I like how different play groups have the ability to qualify what counts as "having sex" based on their comfort level and what they feel is appropriate for the setting. What I'm mainly wondering though, is why the Fae's Sex Move is worded the way it is. Did mcdaldno simply grow weary of writing slight variations of "When you have sex..." for the Skins? I can see that. The few times I've attempted to write rules I usually end up wording things differently to avoid boredom on my part. But on the other hand, it's the one skin that is different from all the others. So I am a bit confused. I plan to have it trigger like every other Sex Move (except the Vampire's) but I'd like to know if I'm doing that "wrong".
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lumpley

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Re: Consentual
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 11:44:45 AM »
We have a fae in our game.

I think that if she lies naked next to my character, and they don't have sex, her sex move will happen, and mine won't.

If we have sex clothed against the wall in a club, my sex move will happen, and hers won't.

-Vincent

Re: Consentual
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 01:30:53 PM »
I only played once, but here's my take on the Fae's sex move:

To me it was all about the temptation and not actually going all the way. That's where the Fae's power is. To give in and have sex is to not trigger the sex move.
-Jeremiah

Re: Consentual
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2012, 11:06:37 PM »
Interesting takes pseudoidiot and lumpley. If you bo by the literal meaning, then yeah. I totally agree with you. The Fae's sex move triggers when they actually lie naked with someone, not when they have sex. It allows for one-sided triggers rather than both character's sex moves triggering.

I was mainly wondering about this because in several Monsterheart APs I have either read or listened to, "sex" didin't always mean sexual intercourse. Some groups decided that heavy petting would trigger it, or that fooling around in the car was enough. One of my friends/players who listened to the same APs noted that this really hoses the Fae's sex move. If other playbooks can "scale" their sex move down to something the group is more comfortable with (as some groups won't like doing actual sex), what happens to the Fae? Do they still have to strip naked and lie next to someone? There's no right answer here. I'm just throwing it out there.
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Re: Consentual
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2012, 03:51:36 AM »
The way I see it, it's all up for interpretation. My read on the move is intimacy and trust, and may include actual sex. While some define sex as only intercourse and others, again, may define it as anything involving physical contact with genitalia, I'd leave the exact definition to the player playing the character, so long as it's not abused.
As for abuse, I know that the people I play with would find zero interest in abusing the system. Hell, they usually can't even be bothered to note down xp because they're happy with the character as (s)he is.

Re: Consentual
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2012, 04:49:41 AM »
Rape In Game:

If a situation like this happens, first pause. As a player and as a caring friend, ask, "Are we comfortable with this content? If not, someone can draw a line and we can edit this out." Maybe this isn't a necessary check-in every time such content comes up in game, but definitely the first time. Now, say something like, "So, we need to decide as a group whether this triggers the character's sex move. It's possible to define rape as an act of violence and not an act of sex, and to skip the sex move as a result. It's fine to interpret the other way as well. What do we think?"

In other words, rape is serious and scary stuff. When I run the game, as a male who's never been targeted with sexual violence, I need to be willing to set down the game and the dice for a second, and check in with people on a human level about these issues. So that's how I approach the situation.

Fae Sex Move:

I meant it literally. A few of the sex moves have different triggers - The Vampire does too, for example. The Fae's sex move is triggered by lying naked together, whether sex occurred or not. Vincent's got the right of it.

As far as "what counts as sex," I totally think it's fine for groups to define that differently based on comfort levels and tone preferences. I personally count backseat handjobs as triggering a sex move (though, not the Fae's obviously), but grinding on the dance-floor definitely wouldn't be enough to trigger it.

Re: Consentual
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2012, 08:21:28 PM »
Thanks for clearing that up mcdaldno. I had this nagging feeling in the back of my brain that the Fae's Sex Move was meant to be taken literally (since it was worded differently) but it's nice to have the creator explain what they intended. Thanks. :)
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