Defensive monster moves

Talk in the "Are the book monsters useful" thread reminded me of something that continues to confuse me somewhat.  How do you use defensive monster moves?  In cases where its all-or-nothing, like a dragon's scales that are impervious to ordinary weapons, that's easy, you just deny their move.  But suppose your Ninja has "Leap out of the way of an attack with incredible agility" or your Duelist has "Parry and riposte with elegance and skill".

In a traditional system, this would raise their defenses or give you a penalty or something.  You could make a custom move that does something similar, but assume you just want it to be a normal monster move.  Presumably you don't want to let a player make a move, be successful, and then invoke the monster move to negate them ("Hack and Slash, 10!" "He leaps clear."  "Boo!")  That would be pretty lame for the player.  Would you use it like the dragon's scales, and deny them the use of their attack moves until they do something to pin down the bouncy ninja or break the duelist's guard?

I guess my confusion is in the fact that, fictionally, the ninja isn't so agile he can't possibly be hit, or the duelist isn't so great that no swordsman could possibly break through his parry.  It's just supposed to be harder to do.  Whereas the dragon is just immune to plain old steel.

I've been turning this issue over in my head planning for a Bloodstone Idol run with some friends.  I figured Grundloch would conjure himself a protective shield or something once trouble starts, but I wasn't sure what that would mean, mechanically.

Sounds like this might fall into the realm of a custom move.

I went combing through the monsters looking for examples, and I ended up finding a lot fewer than I thought I remembered.

Goblin Orkaster - Use other goblins for shields
Blink Dog - Give the appearance of being somewhere they're not
Orc Shaman - Give protection of earth

Those are the only defensive moves I came up with, and even those are not exactly what I was initially talking about.  I could have sworn there were some "block with shield" kind of moves, but I can't find any now.  That'll teach me to double check before I post.

Well, this is still a good question. There are a few ways to handle it, depending on the effect you want.

Grundloch's shield could be a pool of extra HP you have to bash through to get to him. Or it could count as Armor. Or it could block certain types of attacks completely.

The swordmaster's parry could be Armor.

In any case, stick with the fiction first. If the ninja can vanish to avoid an attack, don't let the player roll a hit and then say the ninja vanishes. Either the ninja vanishes as soon as the player describes what they do, or they vanish when the player rolls a miss.

John's point is key. The monster's make moves when the player's miss or there is a lull in the fiction.

Defensive monster moves are an untapped resource I reckon. They bypass combat on a player's miss and allow you to re-incorporate the challenge later.

Has someone tossed out the idea of using things on a 'weak' hit (7-9)?  Whenever monsters do something cool in addition to hitting they halve damage.  This can be applied unless you bypass the protection.  Might give the heroes a secondary objective, or target priority (get the shaman protecting them!).

Mostly a flavor type thing.

Something I wrote up real quick for possible use with an NPC/danger:

The Shadowknave’s... uh... Shadows or Something
When you engage The Shadowknave in melee at night, roll Hack & Slash twice and use the worse result. On a 6-, The Shadowknave jaunts through the shadows and threatens an ally.

Supposed to emulate "displacement" or "concealment," maybe even a little "shadow step" on a miss. Not sure if I'm going to use it, but it looks to be a custom move in line with the defensive monster move you're talking about here. Of course, this guy is somewhat important in the front. I wouldn't find myself doing custom moves for every mook with a sword.

What if we use the cool new notation:
3d6*2w+Str?

Too strong?

Cool Monster!
I'd just make one of his attacks:
jaunts through the shadows and threatens an ally

That way you can invoke it on a 7-9, and invoke the consequences (the ally cops some damage or is seperated or loses a resource or something) on a miss.

Rolling Hack and Slash twice? I've come to the conclusion that this sort of custom move ismore trouble than the novelty is worth. We played around with 'awesome dice' for a while (an bennie dice earned for RP awesomeness that you can add to any roll and choose whatever two you like for the 2d6 result). In the end it just wasn't that much of an incentive and we dropped it. The fictional rewards you can give are far more powerful in my mind to any mechanical modifier, even if novel.

If the roll really really matters? We find the uncertainty of the outcome delicious! Who knows where the story will go? Failure is far from a roadbloack, and as GM I know it. Offer a bargain very much with strings attached is one of my favourite moves as a GM!

Good point, Noofy. After thinking about it for a while, I'm going to revise that custom move or get rid of it. It was one of those things that didn't smell right in DW, but felt like it could be fun in play since it departs from the norm. I think it'd just be better to play it straight.

Something that might be a little more interesting than rolling two separate h+s rolls would be rolling there dice and dropping the highest. Still, I enjoy the 7-9 stuff better.

What's helped me get a grip on DW combat is the idea of blocks and justifications.  When the GM places a block, he's deciding "you can't do this thing in the fiction until you give me a reason why" and the player respond with a justification on how he bypasses the block, which could be purely a descriptive fictional action, or it could be a move.

The block could be a duelist's guard; the player can't just Hack and Slash his enemy until he breaks the guard.  The justification could be Spouting Lore about a weakness in his style or Discerning Realities and asking "what here is not what it appears to be?" to see how his stance is poised to parry your attack, or maybe a Defy Danger (Dex) to invite his parry and evade his riposte, leaving him open.  Or just saying "I lure him to that weak spot in the floor he doesn't know about (that I already do), then when he stumbles, I go for him".  Its up to the GM what seems like a good justification.

Some monsters could raise a block as a move, like the duelist going into his guard.  They might get to do their block once, and when the players overcome it, the protection is gone.  Or it might be something they can put back in place later with another move, perhaps when weak hit or miss gives an opportunity.  Of it could be something that automatically goes back in place once the window of opportunity the justification gave closes.  For example, the dragon is covered in thick scales.  A move that justifies a strike at its belly or eye could allow an attack, but after that  the dragon recovers and the block goes up again, until the players find a new justification.

This probably isn't very revolutionary thinking, but I've found it helpful to formalize the ideas in my own mind as a way to think about both monster moves and the situation on a battlefield.  And it lets me save the custom moves for noteworthy monsters.

Yes, that's an excellent summary of the method.

Excellent Summary!
I liken every GM move as a custom move. I mean you never speak its name right? The name's just a label or handle for you to hook your narrative onto and just double check against your list of 'moves' that it fits. They are concrete fictional events at the table, not mechanical guidelines. GMs have been doing this exact improv ever since well, ever. Its just handy that the 'World games have a lovely coded list to jog your memory when you make a move.

Thus every time you make a move is new and unique and exciting and custom and awesome! You get to flex your creative muscle and describe something cool. If you are little 'burnt out' from too much creative improv, just defer back to the players, I'm sure they have just as many good ideas as you for who the story might go.

A lot more than in, say, Apocalypse World, DW uses moves to mean "when a thing happens, something else happens" without dice hitting the table and sometimes a monster might have a move, stated directly or not, that says "when attacked with a normal weapon, ignore damage" or "when hit with silver, take double damage".  Sometimes this kind of move will fit the bill.

Look, also, to tags and special qualities for guidance.