Beta 2 Fighter question: Merciless vs Scent of Blood

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Beta 2 Fighter question: Merciless vs Scent of Blood
« on: March 21, 2012, 11:23:01 AM »
Okay, I'm just reading the Moves for the Fighter:
Merciless: When you deal damage, deal +1d4 damage.
Scent of Blood: When you Hack and Slash an enemy, you take +1d4 damage forward against that enemy.

What am I missing? Isn't Merciless better in all situations? It works with Volley and the "Deal damage to the attacker equal to your level" option from Defend, and it's extra damage all the time, not just for your next helping.

So, if I haven't missed anything, could the damage from Scent Of Blood be increased (to d6?) to balance things out? Or the damage from Merciless reduced? (to d3?)

And this repeats itself with the Bloodthirsty and Taste For Blood Advanced Moves.


Re: Beta 2 Fighter question: Merciless vs Scent of Blood
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2012, 11:43:59 AM »
If you were only taking one of them,  yeah, I'd say Merciless is the clear choice. But if you want to focus on dealing damage, you could take both.

Then, when you Hack & Slash, your first attack is +1d4. Subsequent attacks against that same enemy are +2d4.
-Jeremiah

Re: Beta 2 Fighter question: Merciless vs Scent of Blood
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2012, 03:31:23 PM »
Yeah, moves like that are all about the stacking. If you were only going to take one, you'd take Merciless -- but if you want to do even more damage, you'd take Scent of Blood and etc.

Re: Beta 2 Fighter question: Merciless vs Scent of Blood
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2012, 04:45:41 PM »
Yes, I know they stack, but I wish there was a reason to take Scent of Blood first. Something that made it comparable to Merciless, hence the suggested damage changes.

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noofy

  • 777
Re: Beta 2 Fighter question: Merciless vs Scent of Blood
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2012, 08:52:44 PM »
There is a reason to take Scent of Blood first....
Because you want to! I understand and appreciate the the mechanical draw of moves, but the fictional significance is just as valid in our games. The names of the moves are in bold and highlighted because they have fictional power, they act like tags to your imaginations, hooks to open up the story with. Why is your fighter merciless? You want that extra d4? What do you do?

Our stalwart knight who is Merciless and has sworn to protect _________, colours her narration much differently than the barbaric mercenary who goes 'baersark' with Scent of Blood in his nostrils as he seeks to defeat a worthy opponent. Whereas the haunted elven gladerunner, who is always has the scent of blood for goblinoids and is merciless to all who would defy her is fearful to behold as she precisely murders a surrendered enemy.

It not only develops the characters as more than collections of mechanical bonuses, it influences the fictional positioning and therefore the course of the story.

Re: Beta 2 Fighter question: Merciless vs Scent of Blood
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2012, 09:27:18 PM »
I think noofy sums it up in a way I never could. This is a debate I'm constantly having with my friends about DW. You can't DO those moves without the accompanying fiction, even if it's a one-liner move with a simple trigger. You gotta be merciless. What does that mean? You tell me... conversation started.

From a mechanical standpoint, maybe just make Merciless a straight-up +2. Slightly less than the average on a d4.

Re: Beta 2 Fighter question: Merciless vs Scent of Blood
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2012, 12:58:34 PM »
I always thought that the fictional trigger of the Move is described below the Name of the move.  Bend/Bars/Lift Gates for example.  The Name of the Move is evocative of old school D&D, but the fictional trigger is clearly described below the Name.

For Merciless, the fictional trigger is simply stated as "When you deal damage".  It doesn't say, "when you mercilessly deal damage".

I would have never though to include the Move's name in it's fictional trigger, until now :)

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sage

  • 549
Re: Beta 2 Fighter question: Merciless vs Scent of Blood
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2012, 02:21:06 PM »
A move's name isn't just something we came up with so that we could name it, its a play guide.

The reason behind having both is exactly as was mentioned up thread: if you're really the damage-dealing fighter you take both.

One of them doesn't have a fictional trigger because it's more of an improvement: it's a general effect to make you stand out at the best damage dealer. There's a place for moves like this that simply let you state something about your character.

For even more damage though you'll have to work a little (as in Scent of Blood). We don't want you to just state passive things about your character, sometimes you're talking about how they work as well.

There's also a mechanical reason: we don't want monsters to stick around too long, but they shouldn't always die in one hit either. This adds to that effect so that you build up to bigger damage.

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sage

  • 549
Re: Beta 2 Fighter question: Merciless vs Scent of Blood
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2012, 02:22:09 PM »
Also, I like the idea of the guy in the fight who just opens up once the fighting really starts. It's a cool fictional thing.

Re: Beta 2 Fighter question: Merciless vs Scent of Blood
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2012, 02:48:27 PM »
Actually, I quite like the idea of my player adding in details to indicate his character's lack of mercy.

I'm looking forward to "and then I twist the blade to make him suffer" and "and when he's down I'm going to kick him in the knee".

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sage

  • 549
Re: Beta 2 Fighter question: Merciless vs Scent of Blood
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2012, 03:58:39 PM »
Yup, the move states you're merciless, so you are, all the time.

Re: Beta 2 Fighter question: Merciless vs Scent of Blood
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2012, 04:37:48 PM »
Well...the move states that when you deal damage you are merciless...not all the time. In the fiction, my fighter is merciless when in combat to finish off his enemies quickly. But that doesn't mean that he can't show mercy in another situation.

I just don't want there to be a point in the game where the GM tells a player he can't do a certain thing or act a certain way because that player's character took a move that may be  interpreted differently.

For example, the thief move "Cautious" when used by a chaotic thief. My alignment says I look to "leap into danger without a plan". Just because I took that move doesn't mean that I am now always "cautious"...only when dealing with traps.

So...as always...everything will follow from the fiction.