Can an old character/new hard holder improve to +3...

  • 8 Replies
  • 7104 Views
Can an old character/new hard holder improve to +3...
« on: June 14, 2010, 06:58:27 PM »
...just like that?

So Rose's all Hot (+2) and no Hard (0). That was all well and good when he was Maestro D', but now he's all grown up and the Hard Holder. I was looking at the Hard Holder improvements and saw that I can take +3 Hard instead of +2. Well, cool, I thought, except I'm at 0 Hard now. Can I still take the improvement to +3, or is it a +1 improvement since I'm at 0?   

And for joke's sake, Rose is hard when he needs to be, no problem.
♥ Julia

*

lumpley

  • 1293
Re: Can an old character/new hard holder improve to +3...
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2010, 07:24:00 PM »
It is, alas for Rose, just a +1hard.

(In fact I should change the text so it says that, since I'm doing my final pass through.)

-Vincent

Re: Can an old character/new hard holder improve to +3...
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2010, 12:00:11 AM »
Oh well. So then, I can't really take an improvement to my Hot, since I'm already at +2, and the max is +2.

Not that I'm complaining, really. It's interesting to consider that a character who started out as something else and became a Hard Holder won't be able to progress to be a hard Hard Holder (+3 Hard), unless he was a Chopper or Gunlugger. And he won't be able to improve his strongest stat unless he did that before he became a Hard Holder, or there's another move in another playbook that boosts his strongest stat to +3. (Example, say a Brainer became the Hard Holder--yikes. She could take, if she didn't as a Brainer, Preternatural at will Brain Attunement from the Brainer playbook.)

Now looking at Rose again, he's got +1 Cool and +1 Weird. I can increase both those to +2, so his Cool, Weird, and Hot, his original stronger attributes continue to be stronger than his Hard, even when he changes jobs, but he'll never be the hardest Hard Holder, just a well rounded Hard Holder. (Which kinda reminds me of Blowback.)

Is there a why to that, or is it just how it is?
♥ Julia

Re: Can an old character/new hard holder improve to +3...
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2010, 04:13:58 PM »

You could always use your 'get a move from another playbook' advancements to grab +1 hard moves from other characters -- though I think only the Gunlugger has one as a move (it is interesting that every other role has their +2-to-+3 improvement as a move, but the Hardholder has it as a regular improvement option.) So you could get up to +2 to your Hard, regardless of your original role -- at the cost of one of your 'from another playbook' advancements.

Similarly, if you did want to improve your Hot to +3, you could take the move from the Skinner book, unless I am misunderstanding something.

Re: Can an old character/new hard holder improve to +3...
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2010, 04:21:14 PM »

Reading through the moves (at least in the playtest document), it's interesting to note that in terms of 'other playbook' moves available, you can get +1 in hard, hot, and cool from moves; you cannot get any bonuses to sharp; and you can get up to +3 weird, not even counting the Angel move.

I assume this balance was mostly intentional -- everyone likes Weird! -- though I'm not as sure about the lack of +1 sharp. In any case, that means most characters will be able to get at least +2 to any stat, and in some cases +3 (some playbooks have multiple stat advancements for the same stat.)


*

DWeird

  • 166
Re: Can an old character/new hard holder improve to +3...
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2010, 12:26:21 PM »
Buried deep somewhere in the dev log, there's a note that you should definitelly be able to take "improve stat by +1" as an ungiven future advancement.

Also, I played a -1 Hard brainer with a hardhold once. There were discipline issues. But I solved them with my brain!

Re: Can an old character/new hard holder improve to +3...
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2010, 12:47:06 PM »
Yeah, I don't mind this character not have the best Hard. It's in line with his personality.   Vincent pointed out (in an offline conversation) that Rose didn't become the Hard Holder from being Hard, but because there was power void and he seized an oppurtunity. And that's perfectly consistent with his high Hot--manipulative and seductive.

I like to take more moves than better stats anyway. 
♥ Julia

Re: Can an old character/new hard holder improve to +3...
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2010, 07:04:25 PM »
He's totally a hotholder!

"I don't care what Wilson says." -- some slanderous bastard on the internet

Re: Can an old character/new hard holder improve to +3...
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2010, 01:37:41 AM »

Coolholders are where it's at.