A post-apocalyptic environment is ...

For a series of TBA resources, I've been trying to come up with a general definition that covers, in the broadest sense, what a post-apocalyptic environment entails. For the purposes of this project, I don't want to include causes within the definition itself.

Here's the statement I'm working with.

A post-apocalyptic environment is one where there has been a significant decrease in human population, such that human society loses cohesion and technology advanced past a certain point cannot be sustained.


I'm very interested in knowing what any of you might think about this.  Thanks!

That's a fair statement, but I think you should change society to civilization.

-Chris

And by fair I meant free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice.  I didn't mean that the statement was so-so.

-Chris

I think it varies wildly depending on what you want out of your game. If we look around, there are plenty of actual examples of apocalyptic events - Hurricanes Andrew and Katrina, the earthquakes in Haiti and Japan, the nuclear accident at Chernobyl, Nagasaki, Hiroshima, the Holocaust, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge - that don't necessarily require a world-wide event, or one that utterly disrupts society and technology, but certainly create post-apocalyptic environments in which the normal functions of society and technology are up-ended, at least locally.

I don't think losing social cohesion is what it's about. I think it's about scarcity and the need to find and keep a group of people you can trust around you.

While I agree with Margolotte to an extent, there are differences between catastrophes and the apocalypse. The apocalypse is an event that ends history as such. The coming of Christ, the Communist Revolution, the Singularity, whatever.

That is to say, there is a radical discontinuity between the pre-apocalypse and the post-apocalypse. Moreover, it reveals the world for what it was, full of hubris and illusions. I think Vx nails it with the lines in the Hardholder playbook about the Golden Age having fucking boats to hold their fucking planes.

As a genre, PA fiction operates as post-modern version of the Western, and as such, is deeply routed with americana in general. It's easy to see how Cormac McCarthy can easy shift between the two modes in his work.

That said, since Apocalypse World characters tend to be limited in their ability to travel, there's actually no need to posit that the whole world is fucked.  Finding that modern civilization still exists, somewhere on the edge of the desert, is a perfectly fine endgame. 

It's also totally possible to play Apocalypse World where a civilization exists, but doesn't give a fuck about you.  I've been wanting to run an AW game set in warrens under a utopian city for a while now. 

Exactly. After tribulations, the party finds the Kingdom of Heaven.

I didn't mean to posit that the apocalypse is necessarily universal in scope. What I wanted to emphasis was the rupture or lost of history, even if that's just a localized history.

I think you should change society to civilization.

Just want to note that "civilization" is a fairly loaded word, and for some people is colonial, imperialist, and racist. I don't necessarily agree with the viewpoint, but it still exists, and you may need to watch out if you're trying to communicate to any of those people.

I think your broad definition is good, though I would switch the word 'society' to 'civilization.' 

Though I might add the PA is a decrease in human population, and resources.  (though a decrease in one would probably mean a decrease in the other).

To me, the PA is about scarcity.  Scarcity of people, resources, technology, decency, law, ideas, hope.  And all around are the reminders of the world that once was, broken in the ruins. 

As a genre, PA fiction operates as post-modern version of the Western, and as such, is deeply routed with Americana in general. It's easy to see how Cormac McCarthy can easy shift between the two modes in his work.

I totally agree with Mr. Wilson.  The PA does seem rightly rooted in Americana (though not exclusively).   I would say that the reminding ruins of the old world is the key ingredient that would separate the post-apocalypse from a western. 

Dragonraven, your mention of surviving ruins of the old world reminded me of historical events which might inspire a PA setting: apart from not being sudden in the same way that nuclear war is (or something similar), the collapse of the Roman Empire changed the face of Europe for centuries to come.  Populations declined, some technologies disappeared, and the social fabric was strained or destroyed in many cases.  The few people who actually remembered what happened, or knew what had gone before, were few and far between.  While I don't know as much about the interim periods of Chinese dynasties or other empires, we could probably get some inspiration there as well.

All of this expands on what Margolette was saying earlier.  Just think of feudal lords as hardholders, yeah?  Who can you trust?  With whom do you band together?  How can you support your people, and how can you keep them following you?  Fun.  And it doesn't even require that the whole world has gone to shit!  Just enough of it so that the characters don't notice the difference.