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Messages - donbaloo

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Okay, to continue to the examination while keeping in mind that its all about the fiction. I suppose if the Fighter says "I roll to the side and come up behind him.", and stops there waiting for you input...that's just narration and he escaped the blow. Now its back to the GM to make a move.

However, if the Fighter had responded with "I roll to the side, coming up behind and hack into his spine!", that's actually Defying Danger. He's narrated beyond just trying to escape, which triggered nothing. He's attempted to narrate himself into action, which triggers Hack and Slash. So that's acting despite a threat and deserves a Defy Danger?

Okay, cool. That's the way I read it too. Defy Danger is not avoiding danger. I guess to avoid danger you just do it and the GM decides whether it works or not if there's no move triggered.

Defy Danger is specifically for taking some action DESPITE the danger at hand. Defy the Danger and then proceed with your action.

I get the impression that Defy Danger will be a very frequent move in play. The GM is constantly threatening with Impending Doom (be it an Ogre's club descending upon you or a gas trap slowly filling a room) and you're responding. My question is, do you use Defy Danger when you're trying to carry out and a different action or only to avoid the danger? The ogre's club is descending, what do you do? If you're willing to, God forbid, take the blow so that you can finish the last words of the ritual, is that a Defy Danger? Or is that just a Golden Opportunity: GM deals out damage or any other hard move, but you finish the ritual. Or is attempting to finish the ritual Defying Danger, so roll the move?

Make sense?

Edit for another example: Same ogre, club arcing down. Fighter what do you? "I run my sword through his gut and steel myself for the impact!" So what did he just do? Did he just give the GM his golden opportunity by ignoring the threat while simultaneously taking the Hack and Slash move? Or does he actually need to make the Defy Danger move (to act despite a threat) before he even gets to Hack and Slash?

Dungeon World / Re: Beta 2 changes, add them to first play?
« on: April 09, 2012, 01:09:33 PM »
Sounds good and I suspect we'll just go straight with Basic. I'm assuming that the HP changes would unbalance the unupdated Bloodstone Idol creatures.

Just as general feedback Adam, after reading the Basic three times I still felt a little iffy on exactly what the GM is doing with his part of the conversation. Is he always  making a move? And moves snowballing wasn't clear to me. I felt like the PDF could have benefited from an extensive example about moves snowballing like what's in AW. I went back into AW specifically to read that chapter and immediately felt a little better about what DW was driving at.

Either way I'm psyched out of my mind to get to play this weekend! Looks like you guys have done some amazing work! Thanks!

Dungeon World / Re: New To DW, just read it, question about examples.
« on: April 07, 2012, 03:03:12 PM »
Hahaha, okay, I've doen two more read thru's since my first post. And I'm pressed for time right now so I cna't get too detailed.

So my condensed interpretation, as of now is: DW does all the adventuring stuff that you remember from your old D&D days but now GM fiat has been made official via the rules.

I see all the GM moves and they're all sort of stuff that we all did as DM's anyway right? But now the rules tell us that we do those things: whenever they players want to know what happens (like the old days), when the characters do something that's not a move, or when the characters fail on a move. The first two should be followed by soft GM moves, whereas the last can be either soft or hard. And since the moves cover everything from adding fictional threats to dealing damage.....the GM is sort of free to narrate how you slipped and tumbled down into that hole, destroy your backpack and its contents, or just kill you via the Ogre's swat.

It sounds cool, really does. I'm just glad that my buddy will be trying GMing for the first time and I'll be taking up a character. The GM's role feels very loose and open to his whim as long as it all fits reasonably in the fiction. This isn't very different at all from how we played as kids. It even seems like it lends itself to be questioned by the players, "Oh come on, why'd the ogre smash my mule?!?!?!" Except now the GM can point and say, "Using up your resources."

Gotta run. More thoughts later.

Dungeon World / Re: Beta 2 changes, add them to first play?
« on: April 06, 2012, 09:27:49 PM »
Hey Jeremiah, yeah we'll be playing Friday from the basic PDF. I was just wondering about some of the straight forward stuff mentioned in the release notes of beta 2. It's not a big deal either way I'm sure. I'm just getting excited about the game and making noise for the most part!

Dungeon World / Re: New To DW, just read it, question about examples.
« on: April 06, 2012, 09:09:50 PM »
Hey Nathan, thanks.

So yeah, I've read all the GM section too. The only thing I've skipped was the stuff directly related to the adventure.

And I definitely picked up on the vibe that the text we simply codifying what we typically just do without thinking too much about. It's just that I didn't, after one reading, have a good vibe of what exactly the GM is doing with his moves in DW. Part of that was must a lack of examples I think, which is why I was wondering if the adventure also served as examples for that.

I'm going to be rereading tonight so I'll be able to assess what I just missed all together, didn't grok, or what may be missing for me. For example, your mention of moves snowballing, I have no immediate recollection of that example. I vaguely recall mention of moves leading into other moves, I think in the very early section about the conversations that are taking place in the game. But no literal examples of snowballing moves.

That's why I wondered also if there's some expectation to bring some AW knowledge with you into the game. Just wondering if the DW rules are designed to carry themselves or if contact with AW is beneficial. It's not a biggie, I've got AW can read through relevant sections of it if needed.

But first, I wanna spend some more time in the DW text. I'm sure I'm just not catching it all. Will post back later with more thoughts.

Dungeon World / Beta 2 changes, add them to first play?
« on: April 06, 2012, 02:19:38 PM »
We're looking to give this a go next Friday and will be playing from the Basic PDF we downloaded. Looking at the news section, there's a lot of changes going on. Do you folks recommend moving forward and implementing the ones that are easy to do and straight forward (like HP changes) or should we just plow ahead with the Basic rules as they stand?

Dungeon World / Re: New To DW, just read it, question about examples.
« on: April 06, 2012, 10:37:09 AM »
Damn, that was just a wall of text, sorry.

1. Was it the intention of the rules to depend upon the example adventure as further instruction on the GM's role and how to utilize his Moves?

...if you're into brevity.

Dungeon World / New To DW, just read it, question about examples.
« on: April 06, 2012, 10:34:14 AM »
Hey folks, brand new to DW. Quick resume: 35 years old, played about 20 years of D&D, took a very long break, started dabbling in indies (SoY, DitV, PTA, etc) then fell in love with Burning Wheel. I own Apocalypse World, read a little of it but never got around to doing anything with it, certainly haven't studied the game. Was intrigued by DW last year but I don't follow the gaming forums very closely so knew only the basics about. Grabbed an episode of The Walking Eye this week and it was the Sage/Adam interview. Told a gaming bud from the group about DW, we both bought the pdf yesterday and I've now read it once.

I made that as quick as possible but wanted to give an idea of where I'm coming from. I've listened to or read no APs of DW. I am absolutely a virgin mind/eyes to the work. I'm very excited about this because, for the first time in about 2 decades I get to be a player in the group and not the GM! That said, I still read the rules as if I'm going to be the GM/facilitator. Which leads to my actual question.

I read everything except for the adventure so as not to spoil anything. is it intended that the adventure serves as example/explanation to GMs about what they should be doing? As I read throught he GM stuff, I have a loose idea of what the GM should be doing but its hard to really know without examples. Keep in mind, I've read it only one time so this is only very preliminary feedback. But for example, when I read stuff like "put them in a tough spot, give them a hard decision" I feel sort of adrift. I can come up with any number of things that that could mean and maybe its intentionally vague. It just feels like there are some ideas that maybe we're expected to have in our head (posssibly carried over from AW?) to apply to these instructions.

As a player, i think I'm very clear on what I'm supposed to be doing. But the sorts of stuff that the GM should be doing with his Moves are not firm in my mind. Would it be more clear if I read the example adventure?

Apocalypse World / Re: Relationship Map
« on: April 04, 2011, 01:48:02 PM »
Nice, thanks for the details Meg. This is one of the better explanations of relationship map use that I've run across. Couple of quick questions and I'll try not to turn this into Rmap 101.

The mobility of your map through postits is very handy. Are your groupings deliberate based on the fiction or do you actually occassionally build fiction based on the groupings? In other words, do you ever receive inspiration from some of the visual patterns that you see in your map after a session? For example, T-Bone, Tinker and Spice "sure look tight". Was that deliberate based on what trajectory you were thinking about or, after moving some stuff around, were you inspired by seeing them leftover sitting there in a group? Same for Two-Bit "slinking off the bottom of the page". Is he physically there on your map due to his want or was he sort of chillin' there after some arranging and you thought, "...hmmm, where's he headed?" because of the visual cue and then that led to the creation of his want: return to the Warrens?

So after all off the arranging you have your triangles of drama. Is that the information that you use for the next session? Are those the scenes that you're planning to open with, presenting those triangles and seeiing where they go?

Thanks again for taking the time to put up all the cool info and indulging me a bit.

Apocalypse World / Re: Relationship Map
« on: April 01, 2011, 06:04:20 PM »
Haven't even had a chance to read it yet, Im in and out. I'll be looking through it and get back to you as soon as I've digested a bit. Thanks for putting all this up!

Apocalypse World / Re: Relationship Map
« on: April 01, 2011, 04:49:24 PM »
Oh weird...I don't see it just browsing the thread but when I go to reply I can see it in the listing below the reply text box.

Apocalypse World / Re: Relationship Map
« on: April 01, 2011, 04:47:47 PM »
(weird, I'm not seeing my picture-full post at all Maybe you can?)
Nope. Nothing here.

Apocalypse World / Re: Relationship Map
« on: April 01, 2011, 10:16:52 AM »
Hey Meg, would you mind going into more detail on how your system works? Any details on the organizational technique and how you utilize your map both between sessions and during sessions would be great to hear about.

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