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Messages - Michael Pfaff

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31
Dungeon World / Re: Magically Informative Loot
« on: June 22, 2011, 09:01:20 PM »
I think I would really dig that approach, John.

Especially, the "Ok, sure..."

Something is going to be there. And, that something is livening up the dungeon. And, the DM can make that something a complication (dragging bodies, using torches, time and attention, etc.), but can also have mini-moves specifically for the looting which gives them inspiration for neat treasure items, as well as clues and details about the other stuff in this dungeon as well as stuff that leads to other dungeons.

Hmmmm. Very cool.

32
Dungeon World / Re: Magically Informative Loot
« on: June 21, 2011, 06:53:21 PM »
The one I'm thinking of more is the difference between noticing something and searching an area/looting/scavenging. Those seem like different things, and in AW they are - read a sitch v. John's custom scavenge move.

Yeah, I'm not really seeing that too much. I think Discern Realities could be used just as easily for looting (and probably better, in my opinion - "What here is useful or valuable to me?").

The whole scavenge move thing is way too bird's eye view for what I think of in terms of looting in D&D (which is normally just, "Oh, there's a chest here. Let's open it." Or, "Oh, there goblins might have gold on them, let's check their belt pouches..."). Whereas, the scavenge move is like, "Oh, you're going out into the dungeon, let's see if you get into trouble or if you just make it back with what you're looking for."

The game IS the scavenge move, so using the scavenge move seems weird. It'd be like using a "send your armies off to battle" move when you're playing a game about battling armies.

Does that make sense?

But, hey, it's your game. This is just idle feedback from someone who's still getting a feel for the whole thing and has a particular vision of D&D (which is insanely diverse...).

33
Apocalypse World / Re: Most and least popular playbooks?
« on: June 17, 2011, 04:54:31 PM »
From my experience, Operator is the least used.

Yup.

34
Dungeon World / Re: Level Up
« on: June 17, 2011, 03:59:42 PM »
Awesome.

35
Dungeon World / Re: Level Up
« on: June 17, 2011, 02:54:44 PM »
Anyone wanna write up an example of a list? I'm sort of having a hard time imagining these things.

I've pondered "achievement" style leveling before, but it'd be neat to have a frame of reference.

36
Dungeon World / Re: Level Up
« on: June 17, 2011, 02:44:36 PM »
I dig the Fight a Monster for the First Time move but the Discover a New Place seems too vague and I would expect players to argue for "discovering" every room they enter.  Also, if you spout lore about a monster, could you screw a player by asking "What happened the last time you fought this monster?"

Eh. My game is sort of "West Marches" style I guess. Discovering a new place ... It doesn't mean like, Ooh I discovered this new restaurant, awesome. No, it means uncovering a dungeon or other adventure locale on the map.

Spouting Lore doesn't necessarily imply that you got the knowledge from fighting the monster. It's more about legends, tales and fables, tomes and other fonts of knowledge.

In my campaign, the assumption is everyone is sort of beginners I guess, so it works.

37
Dungeon World / Re: Level Up
« on: June 17, 2011, 02:37:03 PM »
I think I agree on the stat-highlighting being wrong for the game play.

I have added some custom moves to the game I'm DMing to emphasize exploration and discovery:

Discover a New Place
When you discover a new place in the world, mark experience.

Fight a Monster for the First Time
When you fight a monster for the first time, mark experience.

Of course, these are open to anyone.

38
Dungeon World / Re: Magically Informative Loot
« on: June 17, 2011, 09:27:08 AM »
I like the idea of search because it constitutes looking to see what's here.  It should be worded so that the DM can give only extra description or say you don't find anything though.  That way, if you search a place where you think there should be something, you have a chance of finding it.  If you search an area on a whim, that's just one more chance for the DM to make a move if you fail.  Spurious searches are, therefore, discouraged because they invite risk as you delay to search thoroughly.  An advanced character move might make specify finding something of value on a 12+.

Definitely. That's why I suggested the "GM can say you found all there is to find" clause. That sort of also negates the "you can only search once..." disclaimer in the move as well.

Search as much as you want, but the GM can always say you've found all there is to find.

39
Dungeon World / Re: Magically Informative Loot
« on: June 17, 2011, 08:56:40 AM »
Michael, that's exactly why I said opening up the move might be a better option. But, as-written, I don't think Loot serves well as a "Search" function.

However, I disagree that Discern Realities doesn't provide the same sort of results.

Let's take your example:

"...had the party poking around in an underground river, pulling out a human skull or something ... yeah!  Found it: The LIMED-OVER SKELETON OF THE ABBOT, in a pool of water, clutching a key to a secret door at location 28 and also host to a sealed scroll tube with a water-damaged map of the dungeon, only portions of which are still legible."

What part of Discern Realities doesn't work with this? Poking around in an underground river is anything but "quick" and closely studying a situation is more appropriate to the "old school" style of actually INVESTIGATING shit instead of hitting you roll and the DM magically giving you the clues.

Remember, to do it, you need to do it.

Players: "We're poking around in the underground river with our pole..."
GM: "Sounds like you're closely studying something. Roll Discern Realities for me."
Players: *dice* "Yeah! 10+"
GM: "What do you want to know?"
Players: "Uh, what is useful or valuable to me here? What should I be on the lookout for?"
GM: "Ah... while stabbing at the water with your pole, you hit something hard, but it's not a rock. It's a human skull. The skull appears to be attached to the rest of it's skeleton and through the water you see it's clutching something. Pulling the skeleton out, you see something useful (a water damaged map) and something else you should be on the lookout for: a key, barely visible as it falls from the skeleton's other hand into the water."

Works fine to me. Why have redundant moves?

40
Dungeon World / Re: When you get ready to do it, do it...
« on: June 16, 2011, 04:55:58 PM »
That was Tony's original fictional difference: Spout Lore is talking about what you know, Discern is just studying.

Which is weird, because you can't really talk about it, until you know about it, but you can't know about it until the move gives you the information, but the move doesn't give the information until you trigger it, which is talking about it. ;)

41
Dungeon World / Re: Magically Informative Loot
« on: June 16, 2011, 04:52:22 PM »
Right. So, you are saying that there needs to be something valuable first before looting takes place.

If the goblin heads aren't valuable, there's no looting right? Loot doesn't spring into existence because someone "loots"? There has to be loot that someone is retrieving?

That's what your post seems to indicate.

Let's say the goblin heads weren't valuable in my campaign.

"And with that you slay the last goblin. Their bloody smelly bodies are strewn about the room. What do you do?"
"I'm going to pick over the bodies take whatever's valuable or useful."
"There's nothing of much value here. Dirty goblin rags and crude sticks sharpened to a point."
"Aight. Let's move on."

42
Dungeon World / Re: Level Up
« on: June 16, 2011, 04:49:16 PM »
Forgot in my first post: I know of several groups doing a flat 10/level and having a great time. Especially if you want a shorter game, maybe focusing on one dungeon and the fallout from it, that's a great cadence.

I think we'll try the default and then adjust as needed as you suggested.

43
Dungeon World / Re: Level Up
« on: June 16, 2011, 04:48:19 PM »
Sweet. I just didn't want to be screwing my players over if it was supposed to be 10 XP, level, 10 XP, level, 10 XP, level, etc.


44
Dungeon World / Level Up
« on: June 16, 2011, 04:38:32 PM »
I just want to make sure I am doing this right.

According to the text, when you mark XP of your level times 10, you level up. When you level up, you erase your marked XP and start over.

So, does this mean you need:

current level 1 x 10 = 10 XP to reach level 2 (10 total XP earned)
current level 2 x 10 = 20 XP to reach level 3 (30 total XP earned)
current level 3 x 10 = 30 XP to reach level 4 (60 total XP earned)
etc...

?

You've noted that you earn 7-8 XP per session on average in your playtests. That means, you'll need to play roughly 10 sessions (70 XP) to reach level 4 right?

45
Dungeon World / Re: Magically Informative Loot
« on: June 16, 2011, 04:16:30 PM »
Like I said, in some campaigns (where Goblin heads are currency I guess), hacking off extremities could be considered "looting"... ;)




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