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Messages - DeadmanwalkingXI

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Apocalypse World / Re: Can some one explain how NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH works?
« on: September 18, 2015, 09:33:42 PM »
Yeah, that's the important conditional on the move: You need to be in a battle for it to trigger. That's not usually gonna be the case when you're having a fight in an alley with a single guy.

On the other hand, if you're part of a giant field battle and the Hardholder's gang is busy fighting another gang and Johnny Nofriends is a serious badass on that side and you go head-to-head with him specifically...well then, yeah, you're sitting on 4 Harm vs. poor Johnny.

Apocalypse World / Re: Can some one explain how NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH works?
« on: September 18, 2015, 12:53:12 PM »
Ah. Well, you count as a gang with those stats. Your weapon's damage value doesn't matter (though its tags might), you just have those stats.

So...vs. a single opponent, you do 4 Harm (3+1 for size) and take -1 Harm. Versus a small gang, you're on equal footing and do 3 Harm and take harm normally (instead of taking extra). And so on and so forth.

There's really no need to translate, because mechanically you just count as a gang for basically all purposes (well, you react to harm differently, but that's about it).

Apocalypse World / Re: Can some one explain how NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH works?
« on: September 18, 2015, 12:24:37 PM »
You actually just described how it works. What specifically is confusing about that?

There is nothing exceptionally hard about having two +1 hard lineups.... I mean, nearly every single playbook has the ability to start with +1 hard. +1 is an alright stat, not a strong stat, and it certainly isn't making a HARD statement. That said, Quarantine  has moves that revolve around combat, and since all combat in AW is hard, it would be rather backwards to the class to have no skill in the systems basic fighting moves.

Well, yeah, my point wasn't that they were a lot harder than most playbooks, just that they weren't exactly below average either. Meaning the Quarantine is as hard as (or even harder than, in a few cases) most other PC types in Apocalypse World.

And that any PC with a +1 Hard is basically an action-movie hero compared to NPCs. Because that's important to note, too. Because even at Hard +0 (never mind +1) any PC is a believable combat veteran and will usually take most NPCs in a fight. So a Quarantine doesn't need to be especially dangerous in a fight by PC standards to be a believable soldier.

In sum: Only classes that start with +2 hard are HARD classes.

Yep, that's pretty much where I was going with that.

As a counter point, yes, everyone is harder after the apoc. Because life is harder. The Quarantines' life is also hard, its not like they're set up with all the shit of the golden age, or even some of it. Plus there is the weird, and the fact that nothing is civil. Much like my walking dead example, you get hard quick, or you die. (barring the very few exceptions)

Harder in some senses, sure. But not necessarily or universally in a way that's actually useful. After all, Brainers and Battlebabes can both have -2 Hard and be notably worse than any Quarantine in the sort of confrontations the Hard stat is used for...and from playbook descriptions, it's rather unlikely that this is due to them leading especially sheltered lives by Apocalypse World standards.

In short, there's certainly some overlap between being ruthless and dangerous and having a high Hard stat, but the two aren't the same thing. Nor is having lead a difficult life the same as being good in a conventional fight. Exactly what high and low Hard ratings mean narratively varies pretty widely and thus this isn't necessarily the case. It certainly could be in a particular game of a particular Quarantine, but in another game something else entirely might be going on.

Firstly, hi everyone! It's my first post here.

Secondly, I disagree a bit: There's certainly an element of 'people are harder after the Apocalypse' but frankly, the Quarantine is also actually harder than many other playbooks...and certainly way more dangerous than most NPCs.  Two of its four stat lineups are at +1 Hard, after all. Only the Chopper, Hardholder, Touchstone, Faceless, and Gunlugger (ie: playbooks with Hard as their highest stat) are notably harder than that. So...the only way for them to reasonably be a lot Harder would be to be less Cool, and Cool should definitely be the high stat for disciplined soldiers. And as for NPCs, well, with +1 Hard you've got a better than 2/3 chance of killing most NPCs pretty thoroughly most times. That's fairly badass, actually. Plus, the -1 Hard stat-line almost certainly is a technical specialist given its +2 Sharp.

That's not 'everyone is way harder after the Apocalypse' that's 'certain really dangerous people after the Apocalypse are a bit more hardcore than most combat soldiers'. Which sounds plausible enough to me.

And then there's thinking about it narratively:

From a narrative perspective, if you're gonna have someone from the modern world wake up after the apocalypse, it's not really very interesting story-wise if they can simply enforce their own will and standards on even the most dangerous natives of the new world. It's much cooler and more interesting if they need to adapt to the new world because they lack the ability to force all of it to abide by the standards of their own lost age.

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