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Messages - Munin

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46
Apocalypse World / Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
« on: January 07, 2018, 11:50:34 AM »
So, the game was enjoyable in retrospect, but felt a little bit difficult in the moment for me. I think we didn't establish enough connections from the PCs to all the stuff we brainstormed, so we're doing it on the fly.
There's another way to do it?

I kid, but only slightly. Especially with new players, they'll never have a "fully fleshed out" character idea, and they'll never have scads of connections to NPCs from the jump. But that stuff's not hard to build up, and the easiest way to do it is to simply ask one (or more) of the players a simple (and provocative!) question or two about every NPC you introduce. One important caveat here is to make the assumption going in that the PC knows the NPC and there's some history there. All you need to do is ask the player some stuff about that history on the fly and build off their answers.

So if you introduce Dremmer the Arms Dealer, say something like, "So if anybody needs guns or bullets in this gods-forsaken hole, they go to Dremmer. In addition to her top-notch inventory, she is known for her crazy eyes and bad attitude, and now she's pounding on your door. What happened between the two of you last time you met? And what does she want now?" This approach is likely to produce instant action or character development or both.

Also, connections to stuff you brainstormed don't actually need to be pre-existing; they can be developed in-play, and in many cases that's actually better because it is active on the part of the players (i.e. they have chosen to engage with it). This is where the important MC skill of observing your players comes in - with what or whom do they choose to interact (e.g. which people and situations do they choose to read)? When their moves present them with choices, which choices do they make and what does that say about how they view the world?

Don't overthink it, and don't feel like you need to tie absolutely everything together from the beginning to "motivate" the PCs. Just present them with engaging NPCs and situations they can't ignore and watch which direction they jump.

47
Apocalypse World / Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
« on: December 27, 2017, 11:14:47 PM »
Excellent example, thanks. Very clear! (Except for the switch from Domino to Diamond, which threw me for a second, but no biggie.)
What switch? (he says, having edited his post...)   ;D

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Apocalypse World / Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
« on: December 27, 2017, 03:08:08 PM »
Your final paragraph about using a PC-NPC-PC triangle for this purpose is along the right lines, I think, but I'm not sure exactly what you're describing. Can you explain a little more, or illustrate with an example?
Sure, how about the following:

Our PCs are Diamond (the Chopper) and Bish (the Angel). We know from the Hx round that Bish once stood up to Diamond, gang and all. The questions asked about it at the time have established that Bish was doing some do-gooder shit, and kept Diamond and her gang from killing a group of sick travelers who'd showed up at the hold's gates last summer. We also know that the standoff did not end in violence between Bish and Diamond, (as neither opted for a beatdown), but that's it.

So we throw an NPC into this mix, let's call him Dog-Head. Dog-Head is (now) one of Diamond's more dependable lieutenants, but back then he was just another fucking savage in the pack. So we start a scene with both Diamond and Bish, only Dog-Head's there as an extra. We describe him as sullen and testy and looking obvious daggers at Bish. Maybe he doesn't say anything, maybe he does, that's up to them if they decide to engage with him (Diamond if she says, "what's your problem, asshole?" or Bish if he says, "something I can help you with, Dog-Head?" or whatever). Let the tension simmer and see what they do with it.

But even if they don't (or maybe even if they do), once they part ways, Dog-Head finds a way to corner Bish afterwards, and he's clearly pissed. He says something like, "I don't know what the fuck you have over Diamond, but I haven't forgotten your little episode with those fucking plague-riddled scavs you let in last summer."  <--Here's your chance to ask more about how that situation went down, what did Bish do to convince Diamond to back off? Then maybe put your bloody fingerprints on it: "Jalopy would still be alive if you hadn't brought that shit home to roost." Maybe announce some future badness (both for Bish and for Diamond)? "Diamond might be too weak to put you down, but sooner or later I'm gonna get me some payback. Believe it. In fact, give me one good reason why I shouldn't gut you right here, right now?"

How Bish deals with Dog-Head here (what he says, what he does, how they interact) is going to inform that situation, and is ultimately going to inform the historical situation between Bish and Diamond as well. Similarly, how Diamond deals with Dog-Head threatening Bish is going to add further detail - like who is more important to Diamond, Bish or Dog-Head?

And because the original situation chosen during Hx didn't result in a fight, that probably meant that Diamond had to impose her will on her gang, which might have left some simmering resentments - it certainly has for Dog-Head! - which is in turn going to inform the situation between Diamond and her gang.

Best of all, it encourages the players to talk about the situation, both in and out of character. Everything they say is going to flesh out and reinforce their history.

49
Apocalypse World / Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
« on: December 27, 2017, 09:59:00 AM »
Does anyone have a favourite trick, scene type, or formula for learning more about the PCs in a more play-active fashion?
I'm always a little careful with flashback scenes - if your players are anything like mine, they seem drawn to doing things in flashbacks that break causality. In the game where the Psychic Maelstrom had something to do with time being broken that was great, but in most cases it just causes headaches.

But if you want to learn more about the PCs' histories with each other, I find that the PC-NPC-PC triangles are a good place to start, because chances are good that someone else was present when that thing that happened in the past went down, and how they interact with that person/those people now informs their past. It also lets you barf some apocalyptica into the history, which is always worth doing.

50
Apocalypse World / Re: Crow's Flats: Skyfall - A Scenario and brief AP
« on: December 26, 2017, 11:21:56 AM »
I'd be interested to hear more from this mini-campaign. Let us know how the follow-up sessions go.

51
Apocalypse World / Re: The Contaminated
« on: December 15, 2017, 07:28:09 PM »
... and the MaestroD brings food.
Point of Order! My Maestro'D is going to bring Fight Club.  8)

52
Apocalypse World / Re: The Contaminated
« on: December 14, 2017, 11:49:17 AM »
This kind of impulse that's out of the player's full control is one of the reasons I've always loved the Hoarder playbook so much. And in our last game that included one, the Hoarder very much became a PC villain, which brought a really fun dynamic to the table. Hilariously, multiple people ended up playing the Hoarder - as he kept getting killed, the semi-sentient horde would pick a new avatar, so when someone had a "pick a second playbook" or "change playbooks" option open, on the dance went. It wasn't until they managed to find the Hoard, kill the Hoarder, and set fire to the Hoard itself that they were able to put an end to its meddling. It was awesome.

53
Apocalypse World / Re: Seize by force - to kill
« on: November 25, 2017, 01:19:18 PM »
That's one of the things that's so cool (IMO) about Apocalypse World - its elegant simplicity encapsulates some really nuanced stuff going on under the hood. One of the recent discussions about seize by force was cool in this regard, because it highlighted situations in which MCs were doing very similar things but for slightly different reasons.

54
Apocalypse World / Re: Seize by force - to kill
« on: November 24, 2017, 10:07:39 AM »
^^^ This.

55
Apocalypse World / Re: Seize by force - to kill
« on: November 24, 2017, 12:44:40 AM »
Yes, the issue is absolutely one of player agency, and I think we might see it slightly differently. I have no problem saying "you tried to shoot but missed" when narrating an opponent barricading themselves securely in (if the fictional situation warrants it or it seems like it's a reasonable consequence), but saying, "yeah, you just don't have the stones to pull the trigger" feels like it crosses a subtle but important line. So rather than say, "no, you cannot make this decision about whether or not your character takes this action," I'd much rather tell them the consequences and ask. As in, "yeah, you can totally drop the hammer on this guy - but now he's gonna get his licks in before he goes down. Do you still want to?"

Further, while a 7-9 is a hit, it is important to actually look at the results of the move in question. Much like a 7-9 in act under fire is likely to complicate your life or a 7-9 in pack alpha is going to make you make some tough choices, the 7-9 case for go aggro explicitly gives your opponent the capacity to NOT do what you want. I guess Vincent can chime in here himself if he chooses, but I think this is intentional; if 7-9 always made the other person cave (with or without complications), then everyone would be going aggro all the time because it would be the easiest way to get people to do what you want. There are a number of moves where things are really only "good" for you on a 10+, and while the partial doesn't totally suck, it's 50-50 whether you can really call it a "success." Remember, one of the "ugly choices" you might be given when you act under fire is "you achieve what you wanted but also suffer this other consequence, or you fail to achieve what you wanted and avoid this other consequence - which do you choose?" In other words, failure is a valid player choice even on a 7-9.

This is awesome because it puts the question (and the agency) directly in the player's hands. You know going in what the consequence will be, so how important is it to you to succeed? The example I gave works exactly the same way - Oh, shit, Squiggy has a gun too! How badly do you want those narcostabs? Enough to start a close-quarters gunfight over it? Ball's in you court, friend, what do you do now?

It's also important to point out that I would explicitly not have Squiggy suddenly produce a weapon and start immediately blazing away (exchange harm) as that is not one of my 7-9 options as the MC. But on a miss? Jesus, fuck, Squiggy is quick as a snake! You don't know whether he's jazzed on combat stims or just a fucking gun-snatching kung-fu ninja, but now you're looking down the barrel of your own gun, and Squiggy is jabbering a mile a minute about how you need to back the fuck off or he'll plug you and you can almost feel the trigger spring straining. What do you do? Hey, look at that, I've just flipped the PC's move! But that's appropriate for a miss, not a 7-9.

A 12+ on advanced go aggro is the only situation in the game that completely removes agency over intent from a player (with the possible exception of an arresting skinner, but that has baked-in limitations), and I think that's as it should be. Even a 10+ on seduce or manipulate still leaves the choice of "is leaving XP on the table and/or losing a highlight worth it to me?" which is fantastic!

And again, it's important to note that this is purely a narrative choice on the part of the MC to change up the fictional position of the characters involved because "I go aggro on him again" is pretty uninteresting and (I feel) against the spirit of how PbtA games generally work.

56
Apocalypse World / Re: Seize by force - to kill
« on: November 23, 2017, 11:02:55 AM »
Right, and that's why I said it's fine as-is if the situation warrants it. But there are lots of times (in fact most times, I find) where it doesn't, and a different interpretation is required. And it's important to make the distinction that the opponent has not "ceded to your show of dominance," as that would be to cave and do what you want. They are explicitly not doing that, ergo some other interpretation must be used to make the situation fit the fiction.

Also, it's worth mentioning that this is also very much subject to the fictional positioning on the part of the player/PC; if the player has set things up that it is impossible for the NPC to either change the situation to offer resistance or find some means of safe retreat, then that response option is effectively taken off the table. At that point, the 7-9 might still very well result in "they cave and do what you want."

57
Apocalypse World / Re: Seize by force - to kill
« on: November 22, 2017, 05:25:29 PM »
@arakn_e: the part about "exchanging harm" in the section on the battle moves is not a move in and of itself (at least not one a player can invoke). You will note that it has no trigger, for instance. It's simply an indicator of how the mechanics for a number of battle moves work, the situation upon which they are predicated. The move single combat is a good example - regardless of the outcome of the roll or options chosen by the player, the move includes the exchange of harm. You can't engage in single combat and NOT exchange harm. If you're lucky your armor may soak all the harm you receive, but you still exchanged it.

That said, trade harm for harm (as established) is an MC move. That means that at any point in the game (if it's fictionally appropriate), it's totally cool for the MC to say something like, "Yeah, you and Dremmer's goons are all shooting at each other in a blaze of gunfire. You take X harm in the exchange and they take Y harm." Nobody's rolling anything (as the players haven't triggered any moves), it's just that the fictional situation includes bullets flying everywhere, and it stands to reason that people are going to get shot and take harm. I find that this sort of situation occurs mostly when the characters are "in battle," though this is the part of AW2E that is the least clearly-defined in my opinion.

Does that answer your question?

@Paul T: the reason having a gun suddenly appear in the person's hands is a reasonable outcome to a 7-9 in go aggro is simple - you only get to inflict the "free harm" on someone if they elect to "force your hand and suck it up." The option to "back off calmly, hands where you can see" is fine as-is if the situation warrants it, but I find that often it doesn't make narrative sense in the fiction.

For example, I stick my gun in your face and say, "Give me the narcostabs, motherfucker. I will not repeat myself." If you simply back up, there's nothing in the fiction that keeps me from saying, "Fuck this, I pull the trigger," which is an identical outcome you forcing my hand - which you didn't choose to do. Further, nothing prevents me from saying, "If you take another step backwards, then so-help-me-Goddess I will blow your brains out," which is essentially me just going aggro again.

But as we know, AW isn't really an "I do it again" kind of game, so something in the fiction needs to prevent me from simply re-asserting my threat. And at the same time, "back off calmly, hands where I can see" has to be a valid option that keeps you from simply being able to plug me (because I am explicitly not forcing your hand and sucking it up). Ergo, by altering the fictional situation to include an escalation (Squiggy now has a gun of his own) I have made it clear that both a) he's not going to do what you want, and b) if you want to resort to violence, you're risking taking harm yourself. The fictional situation itself prevents you from triggering go aggro again, which is as it should be.

You see a similar dynamic with "barricade themselves securely in." I often narrate this as someone either making a run for it before you can bring your weapon to bear or moving quickly enough that you try to hit/shoot them and miss - because you don't get to automatically inflict harm on someone on a 7-9 for this move, even if they're not doing what you want. But at the same time, the fictional situation needs to change sufficiently that you can't just re-trigger the same move.

If you don't enforce a change in the fictional situation, the entire go aggro move loses something, either being too powerful or too wishy-washy, depending on how the MC interprets it.

Make sense?

58
Apocalypse World / Re: Seize by force - to kill
« on: November 21, 2017, 10:19:06 AM »
Another thing that's worth pointing out is the gap between what you want to happen (I shoot Dremmer in the head) and what actually happens (I reach for my pistol with the intention of shooting Dremmer in the head, but before steel clears leather all hell breaks loose). That's where the mechanics of the game get engaged and where narrative complications make things interesting. This is especially good to keep in mind with go aggro, because it's your opponent who chooses one. And in the 7-9 range, "cave and do what you want" is likely a hell of a lot less attractive than "barricade themselves securely in." Even if they "back away slowly, hands where you can see," you don't get to inflict harm on them for free.

So yeah, you can see Squiggy's hands clear as day - and the giant fucking magnum in them that you didn't know he had is now pointed straight at you. And he's sidling backwards towards the door and saying, "OK, now let's just all be cool and go our separate ways, right?" Now what do you do?

And as others have pointed out, all of this stuff really follows the fiction. Does it make sense for you to be able to plug Dremmer while his dudes stand around like dopes? Does it make sense for Dremmer to stand around like a dope waiting for you to shoot him? If not, then you just getting to inflict harm on Dremmer without having to work or bleed for it just isn't going to happen.

Another thing I've noticed in our games is that seize by force shines most brightly when what it is that you are seizing is conceptually granular, distinct, and of limited scope. Like, "the briefcase" or, "the exit" or "preventing Dremmer's escape" works a hell of a lot better than high-concept stuff like "her life" or "peace." Qualify or stipulate as much as you need to such that it's absolutely clear what single thing you want to achieve, and make sure the fiction fits.

59
Apocalypse World / Re: Going to PbtA from Forum RP
« on: October 17, 2017, 01:08:32 PM »
Yeah, Mollisol, it sounds like you're getting the crux of how PbtA games play.

In terms of "the world outside the players," I think the best advice is to "ask provocative questions and build on the answers." The important caveat here, however, is that the question does have to be provocative, i.e. it must provoke a response. The trick for the MC is to structure the question such that a brief, non-committal answer isn't really relevant. You want to build a hook into a question in order to elicit a response. Asking, "Who taught Skeeter to fight?" is extremely open-ended, and doesn't really provoke the character. Instead, ask, "Who taught Skeeter how to fight, and who killed that mentor?" That establishes something in the fiction - you (the MC) have introduced a fact about the world - your mentor is dead - but left it up to the player to decide who and how. Riff off their answer.

As an aside, the Hardholder playbook is aces for this: From whom did you seize power, and how did you get into a position where that was possible? Who did you have to put down like a dog? Who still opposes you and thinks they could do a better job? What did you have to compromise to get the support of the Water Clan?

Seriously, you could (and should) have a field day with this kind of stuff.

In terms of introducing NPCs, I find that it's often most effective for the MC to give an NPC a name and some tidbit of defining detail, then ask the player a question about that NPC's motivation in regard to the player: "There's this wiry, shifty-eyed dude named Skint. Rheumy eyes, always disheveled. Anyway, he's pounding on your door in a panic - what does he want?" This establishes that the PC and NPC already know each other. They clearly have some history (as evidenced by the fact that the PC recognizes Skint by sight, knows his name, and knows he's always unkempt), and you're inviting the player's input into that history.

But the important part here is that Skint is panicked, pounding on your door. This isn't a situation you're likely to blithely ignore. You are doing this expressly to provoke the player, to present them with a situation to which they must respond.

60
Apocalypse World / Re: Opening Your Brain in a Solo RP?
« on: September 26, 2017, 05:59:47 PM »
No, no. Not hidden. In plain sight the entire time, just not understood or deemed significant.

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