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Messages - Cerisa

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Dungeon World / Re: Shapeshifting animist is a poor substitute for Druid
« on: February 05, 2013, 02:38:08 PM »
The thing about Dungeon World is as long as everyone has similar bonuses to their dice rolls, all classes are equally as powerful. Why? Because they all have an equal chance to A: Solve a narrative problem, B: Introduce or escalate a new problem, or C: Do both at the same time. I feel like it's a really big deal to you that the druid is solving problems you're introducing, but remember that you are a fan of the characters, and you can always turn the volume up (because if there isn't any danger of escalating, why are you even rolling rice?) in response to their actions. Unlike, say, video games, Dungeon World DMs do not (and should not) have the power to create unsolvable problems (or impassable walls). On the note of your other two examples, I let my Bard use his charm on some skeletons, as well as an entire horde of goblins in order to distract and delay them, entirely because his narrative descriptions sold me on it. I also nearly killed him several times when he attempted similar stunts, whenever his poor rolling allowed me to. I also have let (and plan to keep letting) my fighter kill enemies in a single blow when the narrative encourages it, even one that could've been considered a "boss monster." Why? Because he (and everyone else) enjoyed it. There are always more monsters.

So what if my druid has saved the day before by turning into a whale in mid-air and crushing some obstacle? She also has failed rolls to do just that and ended up landing on top of her allies. Personally, I think it's AWESOME that I let her turn into a giant eagle and carry people around, because I can throw "physical obstacles" of epic scale at my players without worrying about whether or not it's an unsolvable problem. And I always know how to ramp things up. I want a wall that's a challenge to get over? Well, sure you can fly your allies over, but you can only do it one at a time, and each one is a single use of your hold, so you'll probably have to roll multiple times (and risk failing), and if the orcs are right on top of you and the building is about to explode you may be able to afford the time necessary to gently airlift each ally one at a time.

So, no, we're not telling you to give up on physical barriers. We're telling you to give on the idea of having "barriers" at all, because an impassable wall is not a threat, it's a decree. Dungeon World works because of the constant rhythm of player moves and DM moves, and as long as you let players have their successes when they've earned them (via the dice and narrative), and their failures when they're deserved (also via the dice and narrative) nobody will be "too powerful" because they will all alternately be solving and creating problems. It's not your job to say which problems get solved and which don't, it just your job to supply (or better yet: discover) the problems in the first place.

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This is where there hasn't been as much conversation, and where I wish there were more. Granted, every situation is unique and such, but ultimately creating the fictional position in which heroes must earn the right to be effective is where I've seen people having trouble, and the general answer has been to use the fiction. It's perfect advice (and I agree with it), except that I think a lot of people coming from other systems, in which the right to be effective and dangerous to monsters comes from levels, have an, initially, harder time wrapping their heads around how to recreate that feeling and situation. But saying "use the fiction" or "fictional positioning" doesn't really help, when the real question is "how do we do that?".  There's not been much discussion of what techniques are useful or how to go about creating those situations.

We can tell players that their attacks are unable to reach the flying dragon or pass through the incorporeal wight, but when it's something powerful enough to need something extra, and yet  smaller or reachable, that's where saying that attacks simply bounce off or their weapons burst into flame and melt starts to get a little tired, especially when that seems to be the only answer to that sort of situation. It feels like a poor answer to the question of why this entity is so terrifying and powerful. There's got to be more to tell players than that their attacks are turned away by their magical armor or that their weapons melt when they strike the demon. That response gets old fast.

And it may be that something like that only takes a few iterations before people to realize they're in over their heads or that there has to be a different answer to their confrontation and that they'll shift courses and tactics at that point.
My whole point is that more conversation around this topic in particular, notably more clear and direct conversation, would be useful and helpful, especially for getting GMs out of the space where monsters are numbers and into one where they possess space within fiction and command certain interactions based on their fictional power and presence.

I think the trick is not to be reactionary (As you attack it, your sword burst into flames) but to use your moves, and use them as hard as you need to to keep the players on the reaction side of things. This is combat 101 in real battle: The victor is usually whoever is dictating the direction the fight is heading. So, instead having the demon sit there and melting swords that strike, use your moves to throw the PCs of balance. Defy Danger is your friend, here. If this monster is truly dangerous, show why it is, and if you can't figure out how to show that it's dangerous, maybe it isn't?

It's hard to give concrete "here are things you can do" advice because it really just involves considering the monster at hand, and trying to imagine what sort of danger that this monster presents that needs to be defied. For a demon, it probably has the "terrifying" tag. That sounds like a Defy Danger to try to just stroll up to someone terrifying and start hitting it. Maybe the demon is surrounded by hellfire. Maybe it sucks all the light out of the area and forces the adventurers to fight blind while it uses its supernatural senses. Maybe it's stealthy and can turn invisible. Maybe it sends out huge pulsing waves of necrotic energy. Maybe it uses one of its moves to pick up a PC and throw him or her at another one. Maybe it uses illusion magic to make it look like a PC and one of the PCs look like it.

Your options are literally limitless, but if you can't think of any, then to me that implies that the monster isn't actually the epic threat you want it to be. Perhaps the Lich King isn't all that scary when surrounded by five powerful heroes: it turns out his real power comes from having an army of minions and a phylactery that keeps regenerating him whenever he's destroyed. Maybe the demon is more of the "make Faustian offers" sort and when threatened it simply slips back to where it came. Notice how many monster moves are not combat techniques. They're things like "call on family ties" (dragon whelp), "bargain for a soul's return" (devourer), "reveal a preperation or plan already completed" (lich; I love this one. Instant Xantos Gambit.), or "act with disdain" (dragon). If you can't figure out a reason why this monster poses a danger, perhaps you need to broaden the scope to beyond combat.

Does that help at all?

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I'd say that things are much more tense when getting a solid blow on something hurts, no matter what. I don't care if you're a dragon or a goblin, getting stabbed in the heart is not something you brush off. The thing about some enemies is that getting those solid hits can be very, very hard. Hack and Slash is when you are "trading blows" with a monster, and that 16hp dragon is the living incarnation of terror and destruction—if you're awesome enough to trade blows with a several-ton mass of fire and foot-long claws, then you should be killing it in a few hits. And if not, then you'd better start looking for arrows-in-the-gap solutions, because you're not going to convince anyone that a low-level fighter is just going to stroll up to a dragon and spar with it—even the act of getting close to it is defying danger in like four different ways.

Increasing the difficulty of a monster is less about mechanics and numbers, and more about using the fiction to prevent the PCs from just saying "I attack it". I mean, a demon? If you want that to be a scary fight, go on the aggressive with the fiction: force the players to respond to the terror and brutality ("as you charge the demon, necrotic power pulsates heavily from it—even getting close to it will be a challenge" or for the wizard "as you tap into the magical energies around you, you feel that the very essence of magic in the area is completely evil—manipulating it may be putting your allies and your sanity at risk.") so that they have to earn the right to hack and slash (or if they're particularly clever, gain enough of an advantage to circumvent rolling altogether.)

Going back to Middle Earth, not only did Smaug die in a single arrow, but the Witch-King of Nazgul, one of the most feared servants of evil, was slain in two blows, and Shelob, a manifestation of complete evil and gloom, was sent scampering by a blow to the stomach. In all of these situations, the hard part was not "dealing a lot of damage" but even being allowed to deal damage in the first place.

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Dungeon World / Re: How to play boss monsters?
« on: November 27, 2012, 03:04:24 PM »

Is this not something I need to worry about?  If not, why not?


Lurker sneaking in to snipe this question:
http://www.latorra.org/2012/05/15/a-16-hp-dragon/

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