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brainstorming & development / [untitled] 2.021b
« on: February 28, 2015, 03:44:51 PM »
So, following on from some feedback in the previous topic, I've made some amendments to the classes (the network, AI and warlord) and changed the character sheets so they don't look like a blurry mess.
Also, I think is probably at the stage where it can be playtested. If you want to do that, go ahead and let me know how it went but please don't share it beyond your group. There's still a few things left like adding in cover art and stuff like that and I'd like to keep this as private as possible before that stage is reached.
I've added a few edits to 2.02b (hence 2.021b) so this is the most up to date version.
Anyway, hope you like this but feel free to leave any criticism.
Click.
Also, I think is probably at the stage where it can be playtested. If you want to do that, go ahead and let me know how it went but please don't share it beyond your group. There's still a few things left like adding in cover art and stuff like that and I'd like to keep this as private as possible before that stage is reached.
I've added a few edits to 2.02b (hence 2.021b) so this is the most up to date version.
Anyway, hope you like this but feel free to leave any criticism.
Click.
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brainstorming & development / [untitled] 2.02b
« on: February 27, 2015, 02:47:30 PM »
So, following on from some feedback in the previous topic, I've made some amendments to the classes (the network, AI and warlord) and changed the character sheets so they don't look like a blurry mess.
Also, I think is probably at the stage where it can be playtested. If you want to do that, go ahead and let me know how it went but please don't share it beyond your group. There's still a few things left like adding in cover art and stuff like that and I'd like to keep this as private as possible before that stage is reached.
Anyway, hope you like this but feel free to leave any criticism.
Click.
Also, I think is probably at the stage where it can be playtested. If you want to do that, go ahead and let me know how it went but please don't share it beyond your group. There's still a few things left like adding in cover art and stuff like that and I'd like to keep this as private as possible before that stage is reached.
Anyway, hope you like this but feel free to leave any criticism.
Click.
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brainstorming & development / Re: SPLATTERPUNK 3.0
« on: February 03, 2015, 12:09:28 PM »
I just want to say, this is really cool from a broad overview in a mechanical sense. The idea that your power derives directly from your narrative actions and that, in turn, those actions create another narrative chain on top of that sounds like it would be pretty compelling to me.
Getting into the detail though, the moves are pretty interesting. I particularly like the ones for Envy. That said, I'm not sure if scaling from minor to major manifestations of that sin necessarily fits every category (not sure if you find this with lust or sloth, for example). So in my view, I think it may be better to increase power in accordance to something very specific to that sin, which may of course be going from minor to major, a variant of that or something else entirely.
For example, Envy I think could be interesting if it's dependant on your hatred and jealousy of a particular person or group for whatever reason. With that in mind, a move like Celebrity Skin might have some pretty cool consequences; after harbouring so much jealousy toward that person or group, if your Envy is high enough, you can become and even surpass them.
Getting into the detail though, the moves are pretty interesting. I particularly like the ones for Envy. That said, I'm not sure if scaling from minor to major manifestations of that sin necessarily fits every category (not sure if you find this with lust or sloth, for example). So in my view, I think it may be better to increase power in accordance to something very specific to that sin, which may of course be going from minor to major, a variant of that or something else entirely.
For example, Envy I think could be interesting if it's dependant on your hatred and jealousy of a particular person or group for whatever reason. With that in mind, a move like Celebrity Skin might have some pretty cool consequences; after harbouring so much jealousy toward that person or group, if your Envy is high enough, you can become and even surpass them.
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Dungeon World / Re: Noob Question: Carpet Bombing Moves
« on: January 18, 2015, 12:30:27 PM »
In a word, you.
I don't play Dungeon World myself but just as a general rule, you'd probably want to direct your question at just one person. I think if this 'carpet bombing' is a frequent thing, you'd simply state from the start:
DM: Now, which one of you is most likely to know about this dungeon?
Player 2: Sure, I think my mentor told me about this...
And so on. You could arbitrarily say 'now hold on, only one of you can roll about this place' too if you like or alternatively 'I think it's high time we move on to you guys getting to the dungeon'. As the DM, you can set the pace, which includes skipping over people's rolls. Part of the challenge lies in the mystery and I presume the players would want this too.
I assume you are talking about a hypothetical situation here. I'd expect, most of the time, people roll for situations as they unfold rather than presciently; this is certainly true in my experience. If we change the example to say, disarming a trap, similarly carpet bombing moves wouldn't work because each action would presumably have a component reaction which would change the situation.
One important thing to note though is that in the case of NPCs, they shouldn't just be fonts of knowledge that you can simply read like a book. Whilst sometimes the players may be able to tell you the motivations and information they can glean from NPCs, it should mostly be entirely your discretion as to who these people are. As far as robbing the house of One Arm Owen goes; to my mind, that's kind of going against the spirit of the game. If the player says they really did rob the house of One Arm Owen, then cool but they don't just get to say 'I got away with it, no one caught me and I also got these very useful scraps of information'. Why not play the actual robbery out and see how it went? What information did they obtain and so on.
The whole discussion is pretty interesting and you might find this page interesting for more information.
I don't play Dungeon World myself but just as a general rule, you'd probably want to direct your question at just one person. I think if this 'carpet bombing' is a frequent thing, you'd simply state from the start:
DM: Now, which one of you is most likely to know about this dungeon?
Player 2: Sure, I think my mentor told me about this...
And so on. You could arbitrarily say 'now hold on, only one of you can roll about this place' too if you like or alternatively 'I think it's high time we move on to you guys getting to the dungeon'. As the DM, you can set the pace, which includes skipping over people's rolls. Part of the challenge lies in the mystery and I presume the players would want this too.
I assume you are talking about a hypothetical situation here. I'd expect, most of the time, people roll for situations as they unfold rather than presciently; this is certainly true in my experience. If we change the example to say, disarming a trap, similarly carpet bombing moves wouldn't work because each action would presumably have a component reaction which would change the situation.
One important thing to note though is that in the case of NPCs, they shouldn't just be fonts of knowledge that you can simply read like a book. Whilst sometimes the players may be able to tell you the motivations and information they can glean from NPCs, it should mostly be entirely your discretion as to who these people are. As far as robbing the house of One Arm Owen goes; to my mind, that's kind of going against the spirit of the game. If the player says they really did rob the house of One Arm Owen, then cool but they don't just get to say 'I got away with it, no one caught me and I also got these very useful scraps of information'. Why not play the actual robbery out and see how it went? What information did they obtain and so on.
The whole discussion is pretty interesting and you might find this page interesting for more information.
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brainstorming & development / Re: [untitled] 2.01b
« on: January 17, 2015, 06:54:41 AM »
@lumpley Glad you like it! It still needs a few tweaks but I'm happy with the overall direction of this so far.
@Schwarzkreuz The clarity is actually an interesting point for me; I was worried about it being too convoluted in terms of the order the information presented so it's good to know you found the opposite true yourself. As far as art goes; all things being well, my friend will be doing a couple more pieces to flesh this out and a cover page is a good idea; I'd actually completely forgotten about that!
@spigot The character sheets took a while to nail down in terms of the design so it's good that they're being received well! I agree, 2.0 was somewhat messy but you're right about the focus being on both the art and mechanics.
the network: good point. I'll be adding that into the next version.
the AI: as far as volatility it goes, I think you're right about clarifying the difference between levels. And i should also be more specific with those kinds of guidelines too. That actually feeds into a broader point; I need to do a pass through the whole thing and cut out some of the redundant text I know is lurking around. I'm glad you like the AI overall too! Hopefully each class feels a bit different from each other and it's encouraging to know the angle I was going for came through for you.
the warlord: havoc is an interesting stat to me because it's quite difficult to contain in one number, so to speak. There are definitely holes in it at the moment, as you say. I'll try to see how I can change my description so it's a little more informative. Perhaps I should roll into to some of the other warlord characteristics.
Keeping everything lowercase (apart from AI because it looks a bit odd) is actually part of a broader aesthetic I'm going for and has a bit to do with programming. So yes, you were right not to capitalise the 'the'!
The feedback you've given was great and definitely helps me with what I'm going to do in the next version.
All of your guys' comments thus far have been useful. I was kind of apprehensive about whether this sort of thing would work at all so it's encouraging to hear pretty positive things coming out of this version.
Thanks!
@Schwarzkreuz The clarity is actually an interesting point for me; I was worried about it being too convoluted in terms of the order the information presented so it's good to know you found the opposite true yourself. As far as art goes; all things being well, my friend will be doing a couple more pieces to flesh this out and a cover page is a good idea; I'd actually completely forgotten about that!
@spigot The character sheets took a while to nail down in terms of the design so it's good that they're being received well! I agree, 2.0 was somewhat messy but you're right about the focus being on both the art and mechanics.
the network: good point. I'll be adding that into the next version.
the AI: as far as volatility it goes, I think you're right about clarifying the difference between levels. And i should also be more specific with those kinds of guidelines too. That actually feeds into a broader point; I need to do a pass through the whole thing and cut out some of the redundant text I know is lurking around. I'm glad you like the AI overall too! Hopefully each class feels a bit different from each other and it's encouraging to know the angle I was going for came through for you.
the warlord: havoc is an interesting stat to me because it's quite difficult to contain in one number, so to speak. There are definitely holes in it at the moment, as you say. I'll try to see how I can change my description so it's a little more informative. Perhaps I should roll into to some of the other warlord characteristics.
Keeping everything lowercase (apart from AI because it looks a bit odd) is actually part of a broader aesthetic I'm going for and has a bit to do with programming. So yes, you were right not to capitalise the 'the'!
The feedback you've given was great and definitely helps me with what I'm going to do in the next version.
All of your guys' comments thus far have been useful. I was kind of apprehensive about whether this sort of thing would work at all so it's encouraging to hear pretty positive things coming out of this version.
Thanks!
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brainstorming & development / [untitled] 2.01b
« on: January 16, 2015, 08:56:50 AM »
Apologies for the resolution issues when you zoom into page width. I'd forgotten to render the images at the correct resolution so they become a bit grainy but I'll fix this soon enough.
The biggest addition in this version is the character sheets but I've rotated around the text somewhat to make it a bit more readable and there's also the option of a different font if you find the default hard to read. There's a few extra things I might add in later but they're more superfluous than necessary.
I was also wondering if anyone knew any places that might be good to playtest this, including conventions (specifically in Canada or the UK, ideally) or other suggestions that have tended to work for others (like websites or whatever).
Anyway, hope you like this but feel free to leave any criticism.
Click.
Click (alternate font).
By the way, if anyone wants to view more artwork, it was done by a good friend of mine. Click.
The biggest addition in this version is the character sheets but I've rotated around the text somewhat to make it a bit more readable and there's also the option of a different font if you find the default hard to read. There's a few extra things I might add in later but they're more superfluous than necessary.
I was also wondering if anyone knew any places that might be good to playtest this, including conventions (specifically in Canada or the UK, ideally) or other suggestions that have tended to work for others (like websites or whatever).
Anyway, hope you like this but feel free to leave any criticism.
Click.
Click (alternate font).
By the way, if anyone wants to view more artwork, it was done by a good friend of mine. Click.
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brainstorming & development / Re: [untitled] 2.0
« on: November 20, 2014, 12:47:04 PM »
Hey Czevak. Thanks for your comments once again. I am still a little wary of how these drawbacks will work in practice. I personally have faith in the mechanic and that, hopefully, it will bring about some interesting scenarios where conflict and/or co-operation is a bit more organic and character driven than normal but we'll have to see.
You're right, this definitely needs character sheets and it's at the top of my list for the next patch. I'm not very good at Photoshop and all that which is apparently what you need to make these things (I don't have CS either) but I might try it anyway or ask around and see if anyone would be willing to help.
Thanks!
You're right, this definitely needs character sheets and it's at the top of my list for the next patch. I'm not very good at Photoshop and all that which is apparently what you need to make these things (I don't have CS either) but I might try it anyway or ask around and see if anyone would be willing to help.
Thanks!
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brainstorming & development / Re: [untitled] 2.0
« on: November 19, 2014, 10:59:31 AM »
Hey no problem Czevak and thanks for your comments. Was there anything else you found problematic or a point of interest (besides multiclassing that is)? With regards to your question on multiclassing, I am uneasy about prescribing rules to that effect within the document. That doesn't mean that it couldn't happen in the future but I can't think of a way to do it at the moment.
For me, the classes in [untitled] are deliberately discrete so that each user feels a distinct lack (or the opposite) of power. It's because of the failings and strengths of each class that everyone almost has to work together, whether they want to or not. That said, in practice, if someone wanted to be a hacker and a network say, I'd only personally allow that sort of thing to occur via natural character development throughout the sessions. In the [untitled] cyberpunk world, shit is rock hard so perhaps you could sub out a basic stat for another class's stat? That sounds like an interesting trade off to me.
I'll think more on this and perhaps include a more complete answer in the FAQ of the next version.
Thanks!
For me, the classes in [untitled] are deliberately discrete so that each user feels a distinct lack (or the opposite) of power. It's because of the failings and strengths of each class that everyone almost has to work together, whether they want to or not. That said, in practice, if someone wanted to be a hacker and a network say, I'd only personally allow that sort of thing to occur via natural character development throughout the sessions. In the [untitled] cyberpunk world, shit is rock hard so perhaps you could sub out a basic stat for another class's stat? That sounds like an interesting trade off to me.
I'll think more on this and perhaps include a more complete answer in the FAQ of the next version.
Thanks!
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brainstorming & development / Re: [untitled] 2.0
« on: November 16, 2014, 10:27:04 AM »
Hey man, thanks a lot for your comments. I was hoping to really capture that cyberpunk essence so I'm glad you like it so far. Let me know if you come across any 'bugs' or things that you'd question from a gameplay (or other) perspective. And yeah, the art is really cool I think. The guy is a friend of mine and you can check out more of his stuff here if you like.
:)
P.S. For some reason I can't respond to your message (the boards just keep getting stuck in a loading loop) but 'exit' would be fine to use. Thanks!
:)
P.S. For some reason I can't respond to your message (the boards just keep getting stuck in a loading loop) but 'exit' would be fine to use. Thanks!
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brainstorming & development / [untitled] 2.0
« on: November 15, 2014, 01:44:53 PM »
Hi. Been working on this for a while. Would appreciate any comments/feedback/playtests.
Please let me know what you think. Hope you like.
Click
Please let me know what you think. Hope you like.
Click
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Apocalypse World / Re: Help for my first AW campaign:story focused, creating interesting conflict
« on: June 10, 2014, 10:43:23 AM »In addition, I read through that thread you linked and found some of it quite interesting. Nice to see also that other people had the exact same problems in the exact same way. It's interesting for me to note that Apocalypse World has a more structured set of rules than it may originally appear. When you look at a lot rules it seems kind of ambiguous and weird sometimes but then once you start too understand what the rules actually mean in play it makes a lot more sense.
It's good to know that your campaign is going in the right direction. I have not read the post regarding it in particular just yet but I will get around to it soon. You're right in saying that AW has a very robust set of rules behind it. It is why I think AW is one of the best ways to learn how to GM. It gives you a very clear set of guidelines in how to actually build emotion into the game. Of course, you will want to use your own caveats to make it more suitable.
Quote
This bit is by John Harper who created the extra character sheets if I remember correctly. Although I definitely did not get that at all first session. I'm admittedly never going to be able to eliminate that part of myself that takes great pleasure at knowing that I am orchestrating a big surprise reveal or cool conflict when I think of them. It's only really those situations where I see a potential conflict and think, "Oh it would be so cool if _____ happened!" As such I admittedly have certain things in the current campaign about certain player backgrounds that I don't want them to figure out for quite a while because I thought of an absolutely amazing reveal for the climax of the campaign that would require a couple things to be hidden until then. So far they players don't seem like they're gonna figure them out too fast so it's fine and I don't have to manipulate stuff. Besides the fact that I shouldn't manipulate stuff.
I do also get times where I think that certain events would definitely heighten the dramatic atmosphere. In my view, if you can do this, then by all means follow through. Push to the danger that is imminent. So long as you are not forcing the PCs down roads that are out of context or don't make sense, I see no problem. One thing you should consider is that these secrets may be discovered. Hide them but only hide them as well as that NPC could or would. If Grog is a bit of a blabber mouth or gets drunk in the evenings, consider how that would impact his ability to keep a secret. If they do find out through any means, allow this to happen and see what their reaction is. My guess is, as you continue to play on, you'll have increasingly frequent moments where you'll think it'd be cool for this or that to happen.
Quote
I also find this interesting. I may try doing something similar to this with some big hitting questions that teach my a lot about that character. I am a big fan of bringing new moves, changes, or questions to the table at the beginning of a new session just to shake things up a bit and keep the players off balance a bit.
This is great. It's good to see that you are really getting into the AW style of things. You could perhaps use the answers to these questions to build fronts or use the fronts to contextualise your questions. Remember that all of these questions establish a status quo. Who is considered terrifying and who is not establishes a hierarchy for example. As the MC, it's fun to break or flip these preconceptions around.
Final point. I'm not sure what the podcast is like and I may check it out soon but if you want another source to view the game being played, there is a youtube series which you may enjoy. Click.
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Apocalypse World / Re: Help for my first AW campaign:story focused, creating interesting conflict
« on: June 08, 2014, 07:02:27 PM »
Hey, great to know you're still sticking with it. Hope the huge amount of feedback isn't overwhelming.
With regards to your last sentence; this is excellent in my view. Allow them to try and make things easier for themselves and you'll start to see exactly what is important to them/what motivates them. What's more, they'll start to establish security or a status quo. All perfectly natural things to attempt. Your job as the MC/GM is to occasionally tug or completely pull that rug from under them, as noclue alludes to above. The more they feel that they can't just manipulate everything to their liking, the more likely they'll work together.
Just as an aside, I feel this is how most D&D campaigns work except the problem is outlined at the start (be it a dungeon, a treasure to be found or a dragon). In AW, the problem is emergent and so whilst there might not be complete co-operation as you're used to in D&D, I think it'll evolve given time.
Sure, I agree with that too. As above, circumstances may force them to work together. As to whether or not this will forge friendships is an entirely different matter but dealing with that strain and situation of 'needs must' is (hopefully) fun and enjoyable.
I am going to try to quote in this post to make my replies easier to co-ordinate but I have never done it before so I apologize if it's not working right.
I think in this regard I've realized that I have to break my habit of deciding all of the world building/NPC stuff. I also have a slight concern that some of my players will use that to try and make things easier for them but that can be worked around and reduced though.
With regards to your last sentence; this is excellent in my view. Allow them to try and make things easier for themselves and you'll start to see exactly what is important to them/what motivates them. What's more, they'll start to establish security or a status quo. All perfectly natural things to attempt. Your job as the MC/GM is to occasionally tug or completely pull that rug from under them, as noclue alludes to above. The more they feel that they can't just manipulate everything to their liking, the more likely they'll work together.
Just as an aside, I feel this is how most D&D campaigns work except the problem is outlined at the start (be it a dungeon, a treasure to be found or a dragon). In AW, the problem is emergent and so whilst there might not be complete co-operation as you're used to in D&D, I think it'll evolve given time.
Quote
As to this, I did make sure that they started as somewhat allies. Some of the relationships were a tad strained but definitely not antagonistic. The problem is that they decide to play their characters as somewhat allies too each other but primarily indifferent without much reason to want to seek each other out. My players also justify this as roleplaying their characters well and not meta gaming to force characters together. I am alright with that perspective on meta gaming and I think this issue isn't as important anymore and I can work around it.
Sure, I agree with that too. As above, circumstances may force them to work together. As to whether or not this will forge friendships is an entirely different matter but dealing with that strain and situation of 'needs must' is (hopefully) fun and enjoyable.
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Apocalypse World / Re: Help for my first AW campaign:story focused, creating interesting conflict
« on: June 06, 2014, 07:32:17 PM »Thanks guys that is indeed helpful. I would like to say that planning plotlines is not entirely what I meant. I suppose I misrepresented the idea. Like I said I have difficulty coming up with NPCs or challenges on the fly so I like to try and plan a very rough idea of some of these things for each potential path I can think of that there is a fair chance of the players taking. Also when I talked about subtly guiding the players I was talking about situations similar to the one exit mentioned but I see it ahead of time and think, "Oh wouldnt it be super cool if..." In such situations I like to encourage the players in that direction without them knowing it.
Thanks for the help
I agree with all of the above points and honestly, lots of people will provide you with many different perspectives. The great thing, in my opinion, about narrativist style RPGs like AW is that there's no (to some extent) right answer!
With that in mind, I think this might be a good place to begin discussing the two or three (very important) points you outlined above. Perhaps if someone else needs some references from other people, this might be useful. And of course whatever gain you derive from this too is great as well!
NPCs
I also have a problem with planning NPCs and making them seem real. My personal way around it is to build a very bare bones skeleton. I get a name. I build an archetype or even a caricature and then I introduce that character in, by degrees. As I stated above, I only ask questions initially (or primarily). After that, we see what they like about the character and either go with or against those emotions. There might be questions you want to ask your PCs to find out about their characters (in AW, I think I'd be safe in saying finding out the PC character is the bedrock of the ruleset). See if you can find an opportunity to get the NPC to ask instead of you, the MC/GM. Imbuing a question with character, specifically a NPC, is always a good way of teasing out your PCs' personalities. Thinking of rough paths is fine but only so long as you're prepared to completely abandon them at all costs if needs be, in my view.
Narratives
Yeah, I also tend to do this. With regards to Denny's hold, I was thinking "wouldn't it be cool if there was this old wise guy/girl in the community who started off quiet and slowly built up resentment toward Denny because of the extreme poverty and malnourishment that exists"? Maybe it would but maybe Denny would shoot the guy on the spot. Bam, storyline (literally) dead. I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking ahead of time though, that said. But everything is expendable, every character, including the PC. In that case, plans can (and probably will fall apart). I'm guessing you know this from D&D too but in a narrative sense, everything can be transient if the PC (or you, if you feel it would add to things) feels it.
Characters
T.G. raises a great point in learning about how the characters (and the world) came to be. Character creation is a really fun process in AW and you should harvest as much information as you can from that time. I've seen and been involved in sessions that are just almost exclusively based upon character creation and whilst some may disagree on the need/effectiveness of doing this, I think it's pretty interesting in how much you end up learning. What's more, I guess the PCs feel intimately involved with the world, especially if they helped in its genesis.
Hope that helped. Let me know if it didn't.
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Apocalypse World / Re: Help for my first AW campaign:story focused, creating interesting conflict
« on: June 06, 2014, 03:54:39 PM »
Hello.
NPCs:
Narrative
Challenges
Hope that helps. Let me know if it doesn't.
NPCs:
- They all need names (although I'm sure you're doing this anyway.
- Different voices aren't necessary but they do help in my view. At the beginning, just stereotype. Big, gruff guy? Big gruff male voice.
- Is there an established hierarchy? Are there things some players want, others don't or are in conflict for? Use these conflicts to create people who depend on those systems. (As an aside, what happens to these people when those systems collapse?)
- I'd ask questions first more than answer them. Get to know your PCs from the point of view of an NPC and the slowly reveal more of that NPC's character.
- Once you've got a comfortable set of characters, consider shaking this up through death/conflict/feuds/whatever.
- Don't try and make too many. Some of the characters will just be throwaway people, at least in the PCs' mind. Develop these people as you go along and just have a rough framework to launch from
Narrative
- Please don't plan the story too much. It seems like you'd prefer to stray away from that which is great. Develop as you go along; you will find what interests the PCs as they play and during character creation.
- Again, don't feel the need to force crossover. It will inevitably happen. I'll give you an example from one of my sessions:
Denny the hardholder sent out his personal force to pillage this area of land for resources.
Lisa was a gunlugger who knew Denny and was fond of him but had allegiances to another hold in the area (let's call it X). Couldn't have been much more separate from the start, right?
Great. So what I said was along the lines of, "Hey, Denny, your lieutenant comes back saying his men have been cut down gathering resources. Surprise surprise, it's those bastards from X. What do you do?". Lisa is now in a tough position, as is Denny. They inevitably must meet. - As an extension, from above, don't think of interesting plotlines. The one I described above genuinely emerged from just playing and both players seemed to like it. I'd encourage you to do the same. Stick with it is all I'll add.
Challenges
- I think this kind of ties in with narrative and NPCs. A rich, breathing tapestry that your PCs can interact with means they'll feel other choices are available and meaningful. Let emergent gameplay dictate the flow of things. Try and stop yourself from refusing something you think might be absurd.
- Heck, if you really want to twist their arm, I'd say force them into a situation where using guns is impossible or the worst solution. Also remember that there's really only a few dedicated classes that utilise firearms. Other classes have other strengths and if you highlight them through the narrative (a hocus's encounters with her cult, for example), they're more likely to trend to that option.
Hope that helps. Let me know if it doesn't.
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