Barf Forth Apocalyptica
powered by the apocalypse => Dungeon World => Topic started by: JBMannon on May 22, 2012, 02:32:33 PM
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So an interesting thing happened in my DW game. My party moved beyond normal gold standards into true Wealth. They captured and plundered an island full of pirate booty. To handle this I came up with a custom move.
Wealth:
The group has access to a resource known as Wealth, they may roll wealth at any time they are attempting to buy anything from a merchant over their current gold allotment. -6: you fail to get what you want and reduce your wealth by 1, 7-9: you get what you want if your willing to reduce your wealth by 1, 10+: you get what you want and increase your wealth by 1. You may increase your roll by 1 for every point of wealth you burn.
This move and it's associated stat is just an approximation that allows us to dispense with the record keeping and focus on the fiction. I've stated that they can, once per adventure, get one item worth wealthX100 as well to represent their cash on hand. As they are now dealing with a ship, crew, and government contracts this seems to be working.
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A lot of times, wealth begets wealth. I like the 100 coin to represent that interest and/or return on investments.
What about fleshing it out into a compendium class that grants you a wealth stat and gives you character moves with which to manipulate your wealth!!!
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I'm certainly thinking about doing just that. I would likely use the trigger condition: When you find yourself in possession of more wealth than you can actively keep account of... That line of thought leads me to what other uses wealth might have. Building projects come to mind, so does maintaining a staff, what else can you think of that might be in the wealth category?
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Launching companies and institutions (trading company/caravan/construction/mercenary forces/temple)
Really big bribes (do/don't go to war with us)
Founding colonies and funding expeditions
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Those make sense. Shoot me an email josh.mannon on goog I've got an idea I'd like to kick around with you.
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I'd love to see this. I think that large amounts of wealth are really a place where you can put a stamp on the game.
By default, you maybe build some big stuff (or buy it) and then have to maintain it.
You can flesh that out with all kinds of stuff. Investment, nobility, etc. It's almost like different kinds of wealth can mean different things. Can't wait to see what you guys do with it.
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So, how does a wealth stat actually work? Do people default to 0 or -3? When you gain access to wealth beyond counting, is that 1 wealth with the potential to gain up to 3 wealth (roll+wealth means up to 2d6+3)?
Is wealthy actually a status that you either have or don't?
Is stat a resource like ammo or coin?
When you throw your money around, you may roll +Wealth instead of +Cha when you Parley.
When you invest your wealth, roll+Wis. On a 10+, you gain access to an additional 100 coin this session. On a 7-9, you only get 30 coin this session but you have powerful leverage over your debtor.
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You can only ever contain 1 wealth in one place. Two or more wealth always involves land, investment, control of local/regional economies, banks/lending, fleets, etc.
When you gain your first wealth, tell everyone someone who would be jealous and hold it against you and mark XP.
When you lose your last wealth, tell everyone someone wealthy who would take pity on you and mark XP.
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These are wicked Moves. Wealth could be just the thing to simplify player management of PC keeps, armies, etc.
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I've been playing with wealth in my hack, and an insight I've had is that wealth should not be considered linear. What I've done is I've defined levels of wealth: a couple silvers; dozens of coins; a chest full of gold; etc. The levels are one to two orders of magnitude apart. Whenever you want to by something that is "below" your wealth, no sweat: it's a rounding error in your budget. When there's a price that is comparable, roll! 10+: you get it for "free": you pay but it does not change your wealth; 7-9: you decrease your level of wealth by one category or there is a complication, your choice; 6-: both.
This was a move to simplify weath management though, and you maybe are moving in the other direction. Nonetheless, I hope you find this somewhat useful.
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We just finished an epic campaign, where the characters were in control of guilds, wizard's cabals and mercenary armies. We stole shamelessly from Reign's Company Rules (which I THROUGHLY recommend since it melds so easily with the Apocalypse World move engine paradigm with qualities=stats, and actions=moves), using the Stats of:
Influence
Might
Sovereignty
Territory
Treasure
To measure their 'companies'. Mashed up with moves cobbled from AW's Optional Battle moves, 'high level' Wealth moves from Apoc D&D and the Diplomacy moves from the Beneath an Auspicious Star hack. I must admit, the Defy Danger base move works remarkably well with any given intent and failed consequences, narrative cause and effect principle. Just knuckle down the intent (thus the stat), the danger to be avoided (failed consequence) and away you go. Leave this in the hands of the players and the authorial power is so creative, especially at 'Kingdom Level' conflict :)
The resource mechanic from Burning Empires was of great influence too, near misses and golden opportunities became great moments of 'tax', that at the Kingdom level caused no end of diplomatic wrangling and the brewing of war.
It culminated in a Schleich minis and sandcastle game of Dungeon World Diplomacy on the beach. Best game ever! We even used chocolate gold coins as a physical representation of their fiscal resources 'stat'.
It worked a treat! I can give you my notes if you like Josh?
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Way-
That makes a lot of sense and I think that is more or less what I'm going for but with a greater degree of abstraction (numbers rather than objects). A hand full of steel is worth relitively little in Greyhawk, a week at a fine inn in Waterdeep, and a goodly portion of land in Athis.
Noofy-
I'm thinking of tying the wealth into the Town system. You decide to invest in a wizards college in your home town? You are able to hire casters. You found a militia? The attack or defense capability of your town increases. There are likely to be cases that don't map well there but I want to tie it as close in to core mechanics as I can.
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noofy: You should post those up where we might be able to ... ah ... shamelessly steal them for our campaigns too :D
But I second the notion of seeing a fully hashed out wealth.
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noofy, I've been eyeing off Reign Companies for my Dungeon World campaign, it's good to hear they worked well for you.
I second stras. I'm dead keen on understanding how you got Reign Company stats to gel with Dungeon World Moves, like those you mentioned for military and diplomatic conflict and for accounting for financial resources.
And would you use the Reign Company rules again now the Beta rules are out? Or do you think new Steadings rules and Custom moves would work just as well?
And did you use the Reign Company rules or something similar to follow the principle: "Think off-screen, too" on the "Kingdom level"? Like for resolving diplomatic or military clashes, or for espionage or terrorists acts. Or did you just use your Front and GM moves?
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Will do lads, I'll polish it up and post a detailed AP with the mechanics sometime soon, we've been busy at work so transcribing my scribbled notebook ideas will just have to wait.
Suffice to say you take the steading 'stats', tie into the basic town moves at a 'company' level and directly merge with the Reign Company monthy actions as moves using Defy Danger, Parley (for leveraged wrangling) and Discern Realities (spycraft) as the move model. Make consequences explict and moves snowball from there... spice with Optional AW Battle Moves and Beneath a more Auspicious star's Kingdom moves to taste.
For Wealth, we have always used a version of the Barter Stat from AW instead of tracking 'gold', calling it 'treasure' and more recently 'wealth' (at the character level). For Company level moves, it needs a more fluid representation of available fiscal favours and invested intrests, not unlike the Burning Wheel Resources mechanic.
So when Tonks needed to raise the requisite funds to outfit the Dragon Witch's Progeny with saddles, harness, stables (roosts) and feed, let alone the upkeep of the Dragon Riders and their needs, I could have made him roll a Supply Move, but after he lovingly described calling in favours with the old 'Raw Prawn' Brothel and scouring the Dragon's Hoard under the Wizard' Steading of Phoneix Mountain, I had him make a Wealth roll using his Sorceror's Cabal's Steading values as 'stats' for the Supply and Recruit and Wealth roll of Moderate Prosperity(+1).
Oh Watergoesred, yeah I did think offscreen a far bit, but 'voiced' my thoughts to the guys, y'know? Since they were operating at this higher level, their ' name level' characters represented much more than just an individual, so a bigger picture was essential to mantain the narrative cohesion and versimillitude.
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Huh, Nick Doyle just posted these EXCELLENT custom moves for AW, so I thought I'd steal 'em, for DW Kingdom level play. Oh yes, these will be fan-frickin'-tastic for PvP Kingmaker-esque diplomacy, wrangling and staving off the inevitable wars,
When you offer promises instead of payment, detail the terms and roll +CHA (or +Prosperity if you are the soveriegn):
On a 10+, they're acceptable to the terms, you (or your kingdom) gain 1-debt for each point of Wealth you're short, and you're on your merry way.
On a 7-9, the terms are acceptable, only they want something more: a favor, strings attached, or a bigger debt than the value you're receiving.
On a miss, no amount of political maneuvering will grant your request, oh and you've pissed them off.
When somebody owes you, you are always considered to have leverage when you Parley with them, and you may choose to roll +debt against them instead of +CHA.
When you're in debt, at the start of each session roll +debt (if you owe more than one person or kingdom then just roll the highest):
On a 10+, they're looking for the full value, right now, and they'll do whatever they can to extract it from you or your kingdom.
On a 7-9, they're willing to let it slide for a bit longer, but they're going to want something for their trouble: a favor, a little something something, or maybe a down payment.
On a miss, they've got other things on their mind, but they'll get around to you eventually.
Oh for reference, I've been using each Steading 'stat' of 5 tags as a scale from -1 to +3 that can be added to kingdom moves.
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Those moves are so good.
Oh for reference, I've been using each Steading 'stat' of 5 tags as a scale from -1 to +3 that can be added to kingdom moves.
Aaah! I thought that's what you might have done. So something like:
Influence -1
Might +2
Sovereignty +1
Territory 0
Treasure +3
Are you combining these stats when making a Kingdom move--just as Reign Company actions combine two qualities?
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Yeah, exactly! The Steading Tags tend to add an 'attribute bonus' to a company's kingdom moves (sort of like a linked test in Burning Wheel) but we've tended to only use one quality per roll (rather than two as in Reign), this means the players have to be a little more focused and descriptive in their moves. Do do it, do it yeah? That way they tend to snowball into each other or scale down in size as the situation requires.
Oh, so you missed your kingdom level parley to secure trading rights in return for the dragon army? I wonder how that plays out? Hmmm, lets zoom in to the castle throne room and see just what sort of trouble the ambassador has got herself into! The King is mighty affronted at your audacity, the queen livid that you would presume use of her dragons for your wars and the royal guard is bristling menacingly and there seems no pulling this one back.... What do you do?