change your character to a new type

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change your character to a new type
« on: January 17, 2011, 01:39:21 PM »
I'm finding that the rules for what to keep and what to lose are too vague for my comfort.  I'd like some explication of the rules, particularly "Leaves behind everything belonging to her old life" from Vincent.  And I'd appreciate any examples from actual games that y'all have of characters changing their type.

To root this in an actual game, I play Annette, The Driver of Bus -- which is also her ancestral home (or at least she and her twin sister were born there).  And I've acquired all the advances that I'm interested in.  So now, I can retire, bring in a new PC or change type.  My MC believes that there is no way that I can change type and also keep Bus.  And I think that there is no way the character that I've built up would ever give up Bus.  So I'm done.  (Though, I'm eye-balling custom moves as a way out, so no need to point me to them.) 

Is that how the game is supposed to work?  Is that how y'all play?  I can see justification for my MC's stance -- if my character is not willing to give up Bus, then she's really still The Driver.  So I'm not just asking to beat him up, I'm curious where others stand on the issue.

Thanks!

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Chris

  • 342
Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2011, 02:09:26 PM »
Yep. As an MC, I'd say no Driver, no Bus. Otherwise, your character isn't really stepping away from that life. It's not "I'm the same character, but now I have these moves as well." It should mark a pronounced change in the character.

That said, I, as MC, would work with you to find a reason why you don't have the bas anymore.

"Hey, Chris, I''d like to change playtypes, but I don't think I could have BillyJoe drop the bus and keep my character real. He just never would."

"Well, what are you thinking of switching to?"

"Faceless."

"Ah. Well, of course, you're in the bus one night, sleeping there like usual, when the raiders from over the hills set fire to that bitch. How full are you on gas right now? Pretty full, right?" etc.

Like any improvement, it doesn't have to spring into fiction as soon as your pencil is done marking the x next to "change character type".

Do it to do it.
A player of mine playing a gunlugger - "So now that I took infinite knives, I'm setting up a knife store." Me - "....what?" Him - "Yeah, I figure with no overhead, I'm gonna make a pretty nice profit." Me - "......"

Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2011, 10:28:21 PM »
What with Bus being the ancestral home, isn't it secretly a Hardhold, anyway?

Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2011, 10:40:56 PM »
if my character is not willing to give up Bus, then she's really still The Driver.

I don't think it's really that simple an equation.

There are sure to be cases where The Driver is no longer who you are, but you still drive around your old car (or Bus). Like Margolotte said, maybe it really is a Hardhold and you are just recognising that now. Or you become a Gunlugger and well, you sure need someway to get all those guns from one place to another, right?

From what you say about the character and the story, it sure sounds to me like owning Bus is central to who the character is (as long as you aren't specifically rejecting it).

Aside from all that, a bus is gear anyway, not a move (which is what the rules are about). Bus is still there and Annette still has the keys, right? Until some one takes it off her or sets it on fire or drives it into a hole, you still have it.

Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2011, 10:53:30 PM »
Right on, Mike.

I think your MC is being tight. I mean, what's the alternative? You retire the character when you don't want to, or you play a new PC you're not excited about. Both options suck. And like Mike said, Bus isn't going to magically disappear.

I mean sure, giving up Bus is a sure sign that your character has changed types, but changing types doesn't have to mean giving up Bus.

Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2011, 11:58:52 AM »
Funny:

My intuition here says that the "retired" Driver keeps the Bus, of course (unless s/he gives it away, sells it, or whatever), but loses the Driver abilities (such as gaining bonuses while in the Bus, "no shit driver"). The character's idea of self has changed, s/he no longer has the confidence behind the wheel that s/he used to.

But it really depends on the character, doesn't it? Maybe driving is still part of the character's raison d'etre. I think that's what Vincent's getting at with those rules.

It would also be cool if the Bus just became "grounded", as a living space.

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lumpley

  • 1293
Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2011, 12:10:58 PM »
Christopher, what are you considering switching to?

Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2011, 01:02:59 PM »
When this first came up, maybe four weeks (two play-sessions) ago, it was to The Hocus.  Since that time, another player has brought in as second character who is The Hocus.  Currently, Battlebabe is making a lot of sense given how the character is developing.  And it's not a thing that I feel like really needs to happen.  But it's a thing that's listed as an option and I feel like it can't happen.

As an example, giving up the main Driver move would make more sense to me than giving up Bus.  And I'm sure these are all case-by-case rulings where the MC and the player need to just find their way, but by posting here I'm hoping to get some more context for that.

And the other thing is that we're tentatively planning to wrap this game and start another AW in which I'll be MCing my first after two more sessions.  So that means two other things: I don't need to rock the boat in a game that's going to end, and also -- I want to have my head around this issue for when it's my responsibility to decide stuff.

Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2011, 05:34:44 PM »
What, are there no other vehicles being driven in this instance of AW?  I think you can drive a bus and not be The Driver.

Just look at our "water world" PbP game: pretty much everyone has some kind of boat in order to get around, but there's only one Capital-D Driver.

I think your MC hasn't thought it through thoroughly enough, or is being overly strict.

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Chris

  • 342
Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2011, 12:38:27 AM »
What, are there no other vehicles being driven in this instance of AW?  I think you can drive a bus and not be The Driver.

No, see, clearly I'm in the minority, but yeah, everyone else has vehicles, but if my DRIVER is switching playbooks, he's losing his ride. It's not about taking things away, but if you're just switching books to do so and there's no fictional difference, just more moves, then meh.

Switching books is an awesome time to really take a character we've been looking at for a dozen sessions and examine him from a new angle. And that angle should be more than 'now I've got a grenade launcher'. Blah.

If you can't see your character giving up the ride, if it's that important to the character still, then that sounds like a Driver to me.
A player of mine playing a gunlugger - "So now that I took infinite knives, I'm setting up a knife store." Me - "....what?" Him - "Yeah, I figure with no overhead, I'm gonna make a pretty nice profit." Me - "......"

Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2011, 12:52:50 AM »
If you can't see your character giving up the ride, if it's that important to the character still, then that sounds like a Driver to me.

If the rule for changing playbooks was "you no longer have any of your old stuff or moves, just the new ones" then sure.

However, the rule is that you keep anything that is central to who they are and not just the thing they were doing then.

So you could stop being The Driver but still drive the car that is super-important to you. Maybe you don't have the "No Shit Driver" move any more, because that was just a passing thing. But maybe you still do.

To me, the key thing is to talk it through with the MC. Is this thing part of the character or the old playbook? Okay, now what about this thing? And keep that up until you are done.

Generalisations won't work here. Maybe my Driver would leave his car behind when he becomes a Faceless, but maybe your Driver absolutely has to keep hers when she becomes a Hardholder. You can't know which is right unless you think about what makes sense for your character, in your game.

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Chris

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Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2011, 01:40:00 PM »
Sure. What I'm saying is that there needs to be a marked difference to the character, not 'now I'm a driver with psychic powers'. Taking away no-shit driver, but leaving how important the car is just means that the driver suddenly has depreciated skills as a driver, but the personality is the same. I'm not interested in it as an upward move, but a lateral one. That's all.
A player of mine playing a gunlugger - "So now that I took infinite knives, I'm setting up a knife store." Me - "....what?" Him - "Yeah, I figure with no overhead, I'm gonna make a pretty nice profit." Me - "......"

Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2011, 03:12:02 PM »
Maybe, in a situation where the players can't agree, a custom move would be in order? It might be much easier to agree on that:

When you change to a new playbook...

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lumpley

  • 1293
Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2011, 03:57:03 PM »
If you ask me, when the players really can't agree, it's time to call it.

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Ry

  • 27
Re: change your character to a new type
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2011, 04:42:17 PM »
But that doesn't answer what changing books means for the Driver. 

Like, if I get an Operator gig selling hot dogs off of a stand connected to my bus, can I keep the bus because the bus is part of my gig?