Tweaked Ruin Runner - is it overpowered ?

Hi there folks,

Ive always found the Ruin Runner one of the most evocative playbooks, perhaps due to my fandom of the Stalker series. So, I aint sure who the author really is (I apologize for that) but I came to discover that its based on another playbook called "The Scrapper" by Jeff Russel, which Ive just met last week and found awesome too.

So, I went ahead and tweaked the Ruin Runner by absorbing more ideas (both conceptual and explicit) from the Scrapper that Ive found cool. The result is what you see here.

Could you please offer criticize to help me improve it ? I would like for him to be more than a mere scrap-finder and tried to gave him a more Stalker vibe, by having some badass moves (exclusive for use on dangerous terrain and landscapes).

Also, I would like to have him get a bit more weird, to reflect a spiritual connection to the Zone.. oops, to the dangerous ruins of the old times. :D

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

Interesting! I like this version of the playbook quite a bit, and I'm excited to give my thoughts to it.

Right off the bat, I would make the Bolthole a separate section, with its own options. It isn't interesting as a player to see that I HAVE to fill in a little circle. If I have to have it, then let me make options that will flesh it out like a Maestro-D's Establishment, or the Savvyhead's Workshop.

In fact, I'd do away with the practical weapons and lump everything together into Nomad gear. Make the player decide if they really need a gun at all! Maybe it's more exciting to have multiple pieces of cool gear (and I think a lot of the ideas you have there are pretty epic).

As for your moves, I think that scavenger fails to impress. I think that it should be less about finding things that are hi -tek or luxe or whatever, but more about gaining narrative control over what you find. Here's my less than stellar attempt, just to get your gears churning:

Scavenger: when you spend some time searching through remnants
of the old times, roll+sharp.
On a 10+, you find precisely what you were looking for. Tell the MC what it looks like and what it does.
On a 7-9, the MC will ask you what you were looking for, and tell you how what you found is similar.
On a miss, you find trouble.

This gives you a huge say in what you find: the better you are at your job, the more say you have in the object. You might notice this is similar to Pack Rat: Well, pack rat is basically Fucking Thieves, so you can take that as an advance if you want. I'd replace it with something else...Why not look to the Nomad gear?

Here, I've turned remote detonator from gear into a move (again, this is not the best version of what this could be, just an idea I had):

It's a Minefield out there!: When you are being pursued and want to permanently erase your pursuit, roll +sharp to see how well you planned for this. On a 10+, your pursuer takes 3 harm AP from land mines or similar explosives. On a 7-9, your pursuer becomes trapped, slowed, or otherwise incapacitated. On a miss, sure you booby trapped the place, but so long ago you forgot the safe path, and become incapacitated yourself.

Now you've got a move related to making terrain dangerous, but not only to people following you-You've got to be damn sure you don't have a different option.

Spooky also seems a bit strange to me, as a worse version of Sexy and Dangerous. Why not go balls to the walls?

Total Fucking Surrender: When you are backed into a corner, and have no escape, roll +Weird to abandon your instincts to the Psychic Maelstrom.
On a 10+, name a place. You find yourself there, some time later, with no memory of the interim.
On a 7-9, name a person. They come to you, confused and alarmed, without any idea what is happening.
On a miss, the Maelstrom has overtaken you for its own ends, until it decides to release you.

Weird! I have no idea if that's what you were looking for, but it's interesting to me.

If you hate these ideas, feel free to ignore me! If you like anything you heard, feel free to rip it apart and fit it to your vision! Hopefully I've been of at least some use with my strange ideas.

MisterOwl, thanks very much! I gave such a mad laugh when I first read your post that my wife entered the room and scold me for waking the children. :D

Right off the bat, I would make the Bolthole a separate section, with its own options. It isn't interesting as a player to see that I HAVE to fill in a little circle. If I have to have it, then let me make options that will flesh it out like a Maestro-D's Establishment, or the Savvyhead's Workshop.

In fact, I'd do away with the practical weapons and lump everything together into Nomad gear. Make the player decide if they really need a gun at all! Maybe it's more exciting to have multiple pieces of cool gear (and I think a lot of the ideas you have there are pretty epic).

This is pure gold. Do you have something in mind for this, even as a first-start ? Im not familiar with the MaestroD, but I am with the Quarantine, which could serve as a basis. I will be thinking about something too.

As for your moves, I think that scavenger fails to impress. I think that it should be less about finding things that are hi -tek or luxe or whatever, but more about gaining narrative control over what you find. Here's my less than stellar attempt, just to get your gears churning:

Scavenger: when you spend some time searching through remnants
of the old times, roll+sharp.
On a 10+, you find precisely what you were looking for. Tell the MC what it looks like and what it does.
On a 7-9, the MC will ask you what you were looking for, and tell you how what you found is similar.
On a miss, you find trouble.

This gives you a huge say in what you find: the better you are at your job, the more say you have in the object.

While I agree with your point, I see two things that bother me in your example: 1. the 7-9 range dont really give you a hard choice or complication, something that could happen with the original move (if you look at it again, you will see that "You avoid serious trouble" over there, which means that if you hit it with 7-9, you will have some trouble spawned, be it harm, or contamination, or whatever happens to be coherent to the situation.) And 2. I find it too vague.

I came up whit this, see what you think:

Scavenger: when you spend some time searching through remnants of the old times, roll+sharp.
On a 10+, you find precisely what you were looking for and then choose two. On a 7-9, choose one.
- you find something worth +1barter
- you find something that is +hi-tech
- you avoid serious trouble
- you do it quickly


*EDIT*

In the original Scrapper thread HERE there is another version of scavenger. Perhaps using that as is could be a nice idea too. here, lemme transcribe it. See what you think.

Scavenger: when you search or scavenge, roll+sharp.
On a 10+, choose two and find an oddment worth 1-barter. On a
7–9, choose one and find an oddment worth 1-barter:
You find it quickly.
You find it with relatively little trouble
You find an item that is +1barter
You find an item that is +hi-tech
You find just the perfect thing

Well, pack rat is basically Fucking Thieves, so you can take that as an advance if you want. I'd replace it with something else

But Fucking Thieves is based on +weird while Pack Rat is on +sharp, no ? I think that could be an interesting move to have, even for other Sharp-based playbooks.

Here, I've turned remote detonator from gear into a move (again, this is not the best version of what this could be, just an idea I had):

It's a Minefield out there!: When you are being pursued and want to permanently erase your pursuit, roll +sharp to see how well you planned for this. On a 10+, your pursuer takes 3 harm AP from land mines or similar explosives. On a 7-9, your pursuer becomes trapped, slowed, or otherwise incapacitated. On a miss, sure you booby trapped the place, but so long ago you forgot the safe path, and become incapacitated yourself.

Hmm I think its too similar in concept to the "They would be crazy to follow me here" move, which already makes the terrain into a trap/weapon. Also, notice the remote detonator as a gear synergizes with this move (if you have both, the move makes +1harm).

Spooky also seems a bit strange to me, as a worse version of Sexy and Dangerous.

Yeah, I agree it feels half-assed. :P

Total Fucking Surrender: When you are backed into a corner, and have no escape, roll +Weird to abandon your instincts to the Psychic Maelstrom.
On a 10+, name a place. You find yourself there, some time later, with no memory of the interim.
On a 7-9, name a person. They come to you, confused and alarmed, without any idea what is happening.
On a miss, the Maelstrom has overtaken you for its own ends, until it decides to release you.

Weird! I have no idea if that's what you were looking for, but it's interesting to me.

This is more or less what I was looking for, yes. I like the idea of disappearing from sight of enemies like a ghost (its very Stalker! ) but loosing total control like that feels too weird. Dont know.

Thanks very much again! Please keep up with suggestions!

On another note, I was thinking about the options for the Bolthole (is this the best label for a Ruin Runner hideout ? "Bolthole" ? ) and came up with the following. Its just a sketch. See what you think..

Your bolthole sits in the middle of a dangerous and twisty terrain. Its small, well hidden and of difficult access. Characterize it:
- a cave
- a school bus
- a basement
- a tree
- a boat

Choose 2 options:
- it has an archive with maps of the old world. You get Somewhere out There* from the Tribal, but only for places.
- its cozily decorated and has a warm couch ( +1forward for something ? )
- its booby-trapped. (3-harm ap area loud if tempered ?)
- its isolated from the psychic maelstrom
- it has a makeshift infirmary and supplies. Get Prepared for the Inevitable** from the Gunlugger.


*Somewhere out There: name a person, thing or place and roll +Sharp. On a hit you know where it is. On 10+ the MC chooses 2. On 7-9 the MC chooses 3:
- its far off
- its in hostile territory
- its not exactly where you thought
- its not what you expected

** Prepared for the Inevitable: you have a high quality well stocked first aid kit. It counts as an angel kit with a capacity of 2-stock.

Thoughts ?

Thought about another move to substitute that lame one (spooky):

In the Zone: When you're out there, all alone and communing with a dangerous terrain, you may open your brain to the maelstrom at +1weird. On a miss the terrain tries to expurge you: take ?-harm.

(and the part below could be placed at the "aditional rules" part of the playbook)

?-HARM
A person suffers ?-harm from exposure to the world’s psychic maelstrom. It might be first exposure, as in the case of people released from stasis, or it might be some subsequent unusual exposure.

For players’ characters, when you suffer ?-harm, roll+?-harm suffered (typically, roll+1). On a 10+, the MC can choose 1:
• You’re out of action: unconscious, trapped, incoherent or panicked.
• You’re out of your own control. You come to yourself again a few seconds later, having done I-don’t-know-what.

On a 7–9, the MC can choose 1:
• You lose your footing.
• You lose your grip on whatever you’re holding.
• You lose track of someone or something you’re attending to.
• You miss noticing something important.
• You take a single concrete action of the MC’s choosing.
On a miss, you keep it together and overcome the ?-harm with no effect.

Thoughts ?

Ok, new version is up:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByF9qkt14FlUTklhY1NhT2NsYzg/view?usp=sharing

Changelog: new bolthole section; stats reconfig to favour weird more; new "In the Zone" move; gear cleaned up. Oh, and I insert some subtle stalker references. ;)

Would adding "Stalker" to the name list be too on the nose?

For the bolthole, I think it is lacking another option. What is in my mind, is that I might want a bolthole that is just that. A spot somewhere that I've hidden some supplies, and might be able to hole up if everything goes to shit. Bobby-traps works for such a spot, but I feel the others make the place too special. How about adding an option:

- You don't use it very often. Pick 1 additional piece of nomad gear.

The moves look good at this point. The one thing I might want to change is jerry-rigged. While it makes sense that a Ruin Runner can stretch out the use of his gear, that isn't something that it seems like the move would ever get used for. In my head, it would end up being used to jerry-rig generator and vehicles out in the ruins, and would need a steady supply of such machinery to be worthwhile. Am I missing an obvious application?

I also really like the Hoard in the improvement section. It seems like that could really fit. However, I'm afraid it kinda eats the Hoarder playbook. The Hoard is the very essence of that playbook. Though I like the Ruin Runner-Hoard combo enough, that it might be worth dropping the Hoarder playbook, to include the Ruin Runner with the Hoard improvement.

I think Stalker would be too on the nose. There is already a bunch of stalker names there (Red is the protagonist of Roadside Picnic book, and Yar, Wolf, Scar and Nimble are from the videogames).

And I agree the bolthole is looking almost like a penthouse. But how do I make it have personality and narration-power without making it look like a full-blown command center ? xD

I see three possibilities here:

1) imbue it with one or many disadvantages. Perhaps making each option have its own disadvantage, or giving a list of disadvantages and asking the player to pick one.

2) cut off the more impactful moves from it (augury, somewhere out there) and make it give just slight bonuses (+barter, +1forward with something, etc)

3) go back to Bolthole being just another Nomad Gear option, providing some shelter and supplies in case of emergency.

As awesome as 1) sounds, I think 2) and 3) fits the archetype better, at least the way I see it. A Ruin Runner / Stalker shouldnt be someone with a nice house or shelter no, his "house" is the Zone/the Ruins. Its when he is out there, communing with the landscape, that he feels at home. The Ruin Runner is a nomad at heart. Thus the boldthole should be just a place to crash when some emergency arrives or for sleeping.

*EDIT*

Ok, I think I came up with a good compromise. What about going back and making the bolthole a Nomad Gear option, but one with 3 other options to choose from ? Something like this..

Nomad Gear (choose 2)

- bolthole: a small, hidden shelter in the middle of a dangerous terrain. It has: ( ) a personal stash with oddments worth 4-barter, ( ) a collection of old maps from Golden Age (+1 forward when navigating terrain), or ( ) a mysterious and beautiful artifact you brought from the ruins (get augury).
- multitool: Pick an extra option on a hit with Jerry-rigged
- remote detonator (hi-tech): With reasonable foresight or planning, any terrain is considered dangerous and
inflicts +1harm.
- rope and climbing gear: Pick an extra option on a hit with Scavenger
- gas-mask and makeshift envirosuit (worn hi-tech refill): Receive +1armor when outside on a dangerous terrain or landscape. Plus
protection from toxic hazard and contamination.

This way we give some personality to the Bolthole without going full-blown command center. hehe

Thoughts ?

Ok, new version is up: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByF9qkt14FlUaUlheE5wRDdNdkk/view?usp=sharing

Changelog:
1. the new Places speak move;
2. the +1sharp move changed to act under fire with +sharp (+1sharp really seems overpowered).
3. the Bolthole changed back to a Nomad Gear, but with sub-options;
4. I cut off the Hoard as advancement option (I agree this deprotagonizes the Hoarder too much).
5. I cut off Somewhere out there for the Maps collection (same logic as the Hoarder, but with the Tribal this time).

I liked it best of all versions yet. Feedback appreciated! ;D


*EDIT*

he moves look good at this point. The one thing I might want to change is jerry-rigged. While it makes sense that a Ruin Runner can stretch out the use of his gear, that isn't something that it seems like the move would ever get used for. In my head, it would end up being used to jerry-rig generator and vehicles out in the ruins, and would need a steady supply of such machinery to be worthwhile. Am I missing an obvious application?

Well, I didnt create it. It was Jeff Russel at this thread, so I dont know its intended aplication. What I think is clear is that this move cant actually fix things like a Savvyhead would, it just make things temporarily working (or badly working) until a Savvy is around to truly repair it.

I actually think that In The Zone may be more overpowered. Isn't moving under fire the only thing that you use cool for?

The Places Speak move is nifty, though there doesn't seem to be graduated success. Do you just get 2 questions on 7+?

I also feel like "what was this place like in the Golden Age" and "who lived here during the Golden Age" kinda overlap. Since who lives there probably influences what it was like, a lot. However about swapping "who lived here during the Golden Age" with "what thing, relatively intact, remains here from the Golden Age"? Though maybe not exactly that. I'm having a bit of trouble formulating it in a succinct way.

Maybe just go for 3 nomad gear, instead of bolthole + 2? The artefact also seems like it could be separated from the bolthole, and made a gear option of its own. Maybe add in the medkit in its place (no infirmary, just a stash of medical supplies).

As for jerry-rigged, I really like the move and it really fits the character. But to reiterate, I just don't see it getting used much in the average campaign. Unless it is a signal that the player wants stuff breaking to be a theme, kinda like how the Angel's Touched By Death signals that he wants his patients to die. But that sucks for the other players when their stuff starts to break. Maybe just drop it. Six moves is a healthy amount.

I actually think that In The Zone may be more overpowered. Isn't moving under fire the only thing that you use cool for?

Well, a bunch of playbooks have similar moves (Gunlugger, Driver, etc). On the other hand, there is no move to get +1sharp. I think this may be saying something, even if I dont quite grasp what it is. lol

The Places Speak move is nifty, though there doesn't seem to be graduated success. Do you just get 2 questions on 7+?

I also feel like "what was this place like in the Golden Age" and "who lived here during the Golden Age" kinda overlap. Since who lives there probably influences what it was like, a lot. However about swapping "who lived here during the Golden Age" with "what thing, relatively intact, remains here from the Golden Age"? Though maybe not exactly that. I'm having a bit of trouble formulating it in a succinct way.

Got your point. Yeah, I will reformulate the questions a bit, and add a mid tier success (on 10+, ask 3, on 7-9 ask 1).

Maybe just go for 3 nomad gear, instead of bolthole + 2? The artefact also seems like it could be separated from the bolthole, and made a gear option of its own. Maybe add in the medkit in its place (no infirmary, just a stash of medical supplies).

Hmmm, I like the idea of making the bolhole obligatory (without being a command center hehe ), but I agree about the strange artifact and medical supplies. Makes sense.

As for jerry-rigged, I really like the move and it really fits the character. But to reiterate, I just don't see it getting used much in the average campaign. Unless it is a signal that the player wants stuff breaking to be a theme, kinda like how the Angel's Touched By Death signals that he wants his patients to die. But that sucks for the other players when their stuff starts to break. Maybe just drop it. Six moves is a healthy amount.

I agree with whay you say, but I think its such a emblematic move for the playbook concept that I would prefer it to be there even if it means the MC should be on the lookout to break people stuff here and there.

About dropping the total moves to six, yeah, I thought about that by taking out Places Speak. But then how many moves should the player pick then ? Scavenger +1 ?

I think Ive found a mid-term regarding the "act under fire with +sharp" vs "sharp+1". Also, the new Places speak..

In the Zone: when you act under fire, roll +sharp instead of +cool, but only while out on dangerous terrain.

Places speak: When you're out there communing with a dangerous terrain, roll +weird. On 10+, both. On 7-9 choose 1. On a miss, the terrain tries to expurge you: take ?-harm.
• you catch a glimpse of this place during the Golden Age: who lived here and what emotion they evoke ?
• you catch a glimpse of this place in the recent past: who lives here now and what emotion they evoke ?

Aaaaan new version is up: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByF9qkt14FlUXzFCMGxqc2ZGQ00/view?usp=sharing

Feedback appreciated. ;)

*edit*: oh and I took the maps out of the bolthole and inserted medical supplies in its place. In the end I let the strange artifact in the bolthole as a portable augury device seems overpowered.

Pathfinder is still underwhelming. Why would anyone waste taking a playbook move for that, when they can choose a move from another playbook and get the battle babe's Perfect Instincts? I would turn to the mapping suggestion above or something similar to it. That way the maps and such option out of the gear options can work similar to what the multitool does for jury rigging.

Although removing the move completely would not be a horrible option anyway. The gear options this class has is overwhelmingly better then any other playbook as is.

Oh. In the Zone suffers from the same problem, The Driver has a move that just completely overwhelms it. Neither of these moves are cool enough to warrant taking by anyone playing this class--because the other options are just far more useful--unless they NEED a another specific move from another playbook.

You have a point, though I would like to keep the move in some way because I feel its nicely thematic. What about this, then:

Pathfinder: when you use read a sitch to scout a terrain, landscape or location, roll +sharp. On a hit, get an extra +1 forward to act on the MC answers.

This way it improves on the normal read a sitch, while also being cumulative with moves like Perfect Instincts if the character so chooses.

*edit* oh an its still cumulative with the maps gear option, effectively giving a +3 forward total bonus if the two are used together. Hmmm, this sound somewhat overpowered to me. Perhaps going back to the maps gear giving Somewhere out there instead of +1forward... or simply cutting out the maps option altogether ?


About In the Zone, its a simple matter of going back to plain act under fire with +sharp then, just like the Driver one (there are other moves that get duplicated on other playbooks so its not really a problem, right ?)

Thinking again, I ended up doing more or less as Ebok suggested: cutted out the Pathfinder move (now you get Scavenger and another of your choice), and giving the option to get any 3 nomad gear (instead of bolthole +2).

New version (and probrably last, as I will be focused on a real life project for the next month): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByF9qkt14FlUYUpkaGhWR1QwZ2s/view?usp=sharing

Thanks for the help, folks!