Questions and answers...

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Questions and answers...
« on: September 20, 2014, 11:43:41 PM »
Hello there! Glad i have found your forum, cause there is no community in my country and its hard to find somebody who can help with questions about game. I was a DM for about 4 years or so. At first it was D&D then VTM, now me and my friends decided to play Appocalypse. It is sometimes hard for me to switch my brain from systems whic had tons of different rolls and thousand pages of info and calculations and so on, so I often feel like i miss something in Appocalypse rulles or do wrong. So i got few questions which maybe really very simple for you or even funny to ask for expereince players, though i need to be sure. =) I will also add new questions in this topic and wont create new, so hope you could help me from time to time with your advices I ll appreciate that a lot. So, here are questions I got for now:

1) What means reload in gun information? Is that means that character need to spend  his whole next move on reloading and cant shoot it ?
2) Can Angel use his angel's kit on himself to heal himself if he is not  unconscious?
3)If a character got a move which make him count like a gang, when he fight alongside other gang or command it- that gang become bigger? Like medium become big gang if he is with that gang?
4) Can a character command gang but same time do other moves like heal smb or attack somebody seperately from his gang?
5) When a character choose improvement "change a chracter to a new type" what actually he loose and what not?
I mean did he still have all of moves from another character list as well as all his moves which are not connected with what he had lost? Also I dont completely get what each character loose. Driver loose his cars, hardholder loose his settlement but what for exmaplse gunlugger loose? or battlebae?  And one more- if a character got a settlement or gang through expereince improvements he also loose it?
6) When a character is stunned by stun weapon how can he get from stun on his move?
7) Question of game logic- Character fights a small gang. How can a character with shawed-off shotgun with only two bullets - two shots in one move   kill several memebers of gang if for example his dmg were 3 or 4 to a gang?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 11:53:00 PM by Ksandr »

Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2014, 12:51:57 PM »
1) Think of reload as an opening for whatever complications you want to introduce. Character fails a roll or leaves an opening for a soft move for the MC? Now his gun is empty and he needs to reload. That might be an acting under fire to get it done before the next volley comes or it might force him to find someplace to hide to do it or it might give his foes a chance to regroup or flee.
2) I don't see why not. Depending on the circumstances (like his arm being shot up) he might be acting under fire.
3) Debatable. I feel like this has been discussed before and it depends.
4) Possibly if they are really acting separately. Though they then might not count as present for any damage resolution.
5) Very subjective. Some character lose practically nothing others leave behind Hardholds, Establishments, and the like. Ask yourself what does it mean to change from playbook 1 to playbook 2?

A gunlugger likely loses nothing. Really that character is only gain things (mostly responsibilities) by changing plkaybooks.

Personally I'd treat experience improvements as off limits unless the fiction says it should go.
6) I'm not sure what you are asking here. If it is how does he get unstunned or what effect it has on his next move, that depends on the source and the situation. Maybe he just have to wait it out or perhaps he can Act under fire to push past the pain.
7) Combat is abstract. A seize by force roll can be one turn of fire or it can encompass a 10 minute fire fight. So it can mean everyone fires once or it can be every empties their magazines, reloads and fires some more. It just depends on how much you want to zoom into the action. In your example it might mean he reloads his sawed off partway through or it might be that he managed to catch half dozen guys in a single blast of buckshot.

I hope that helps. Feel free to ask more specific follow up questions.

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Ebok

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Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2014, 09:10:38 PM »
3) This depends on how you want to deal with it. There are times when it could be appropriate and times where it seems like overkill in a really big way. My own ruling for it has been, when you're significantly outnumbered then you count as larger, when you're not, then you do not.


4) Gangs that slam into each other don't need a seize by force roll to determine the results. The harm and armor and size tell us that, you just narrate the translation into the scene. If character A has a gang and they storm an enemy position, but instead of pushing his men forward with seize by force and using the gang like a weapon, the character is doing something else, like taking an opportunity to locate the enemy leader (ex: read a sitch), then you say sure! If they miss the read a sitch then your hard more should or at least could involve the character's vulnerability by targeting the non-directed gang conflict. But either way, I'd have the gangs exchange harm with each other as established. It certainly benefits of the gang leader to use seize by force to directly command his gang into battle, if for nothing else then to guarantee fictional objectives through the choices under seize by force. I would not ask him to roll as if he was doing both, he should decide which. It can be very beneficial to locate an enemy leader while two gangs war, because if you drop the leader fighting just you and some of his guys right in the middle of the fight, you can force the other gang to route that much faster.



5) This topic has many ways to play, the short answer, is do what feels right for you and your crew.

The long answer based on my own play is as follows: When you change into a new type, it represents a significant change to WHO this character is and how they define themselves. Say you have a gunlugger that has is fueled by hate, finally settling down to rule over a hardhold... This represents a significant change in the story of the character, it should matter. It should not be, Im ready for multiclassing now... It should be well maybe he's got a family now, he's settled down with Silver and had a kid. He isn't so ready to die anymore, hes got more to live for now. Whatever the case may be...

You and the player both look over the moves he has already, and whatever moves don't apply immediately to the new life he's creating for himself, drop. Maybe he isn't insano like drano anymore, maybe he's not brutal anymore, maybe he's not so violent and destructive and NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH just doesnt apply now cause he has things in his life he doesn't want to lose, so he isnt willing to put himself out there to die so easily. Think Fight or Flight, if hes got nothing to lose, he'll fight a lot harder then someone that might be distracted by the fear of losing someone dear to him.

Say the gunlugger going hardholder had Fuck this shit and Easy to Trust. Well as he's settled down in a hardhold he's probably not willing to bounce at the first sign of trouble anymore so unless he's still that kind of guy... probably not, but maybe whatever made him easy to trust before still applies now. So keep that one.

I always let them choose at least two moves they have and want to keep if they have them automatically selected as moves from another playbook on their new blank character playbook. Other moves are a bonus if they get to keep them. Keep them only if they make sense to the new lifestyle and narrative logic that determined the class change to begin with.


6) When a character is stunned by a weapon, he is acting underfire to do anything. If its charge the bastards that stunned him, he rolls a seize by force, then rolls act under fire. Seize by force determines the non stunned result, act underfire describes doing it while stunned. I'd say they'll stay stunned until either they get the fuck down, they get out of that area, or enough logical time has passed that they get the chance to clear their head. This one is really a case-by-case thing.

7) A move does not represent a turn. You do not take turns fighting, the move represents the Scene, or part of a scene. If your gunlugger seizes THAT BUILDING FULL OF ENEMIES by force, one roll explains using a bunch of weapons maybe, tossing grenades firing guns, getting shot, etc. Take definite hold, he's the guy with the building now. The other people dont have the building, they might be inside fighting for it back, or they might be routed and forced back to another position. Do not use seize by force to do a play by play fight.

In apoc world, Everyone has Gas and everyone has Bullets. At least, that's the standard. I handle those things a bit differently now and then, but still. Do as the fiction demands, if it doesnt make sense, dont do it that way. You have a priority to make the game feel real while still being a fan of the characters,
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 09:26:01 PM by Ebok »

Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2014, 11:54:02 PM »
Thanks for such answers guys! YOu really helped me a lot! I ve got another question - If a character have both Merciless +1 harm and Bloocrazed +1 harm, does it mean he ve got +2 harm ?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 12:22:41 AM by Ksandr »

Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2014, 09:25:30 AM »
Yes. I hope he/she doesn't ever have to take someone alive. That character's hands are deadly weapons.

Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2014, 06:51:53 PM »
1) In Gunluger char list it is said that he obtain armor penetrion for all of his weapons. Does it count for his grenade launcher as well?
2) Can a character obtain during game armor penetraion bullets or custom weapon like battlebabe? If yes how could it be?

Thanks for helping A LOT!

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Munin

  • 417
Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2014, 09:15:37 PM »
1) Yup.  Boom.

2) Yes.  As to how it might come about, the easy answer is "respond with fuckery and intermittent rewards." That is to say, if the character has done something cool and the fiction warrants it, then go for it.

Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2014, 10:59:55 AM »
2) Can a character obtain during game armor penetraion bullets or custom weapon like battlebabe? If yes how could it be?

Have you seen the section - I don't have the book right now, so I'm not sure where - where it says improvement (or maybe fronts, or both) are both prescriptive and descriptive? What that means is, if you get 5 experience and buy a move, of course you get that move. If you get the thing in the fiction (IE during gameplay) you also get that thing.

A great example is "My other car..." from the driver... it gives you some new vehicle.
So, if you get 5 XP, take a move from another playbook, and take this move, you now have a cool car... you probably need to work out with the MC or whatever where it came from, but it's there.
But if you somehow get a tricked-out car while playing (buy it, steal it, build it, etc...) then also you now have a cool car.

In the same way, if a player wants some AP ammo, I would say some things maybe...
  • Sure, you know where to find some... who has a bunch and why are they a jerk?
  • Sure, you can try to drop some jingle and see what comes of it (I think this is a basic barter move? or the maestro alternative)
  • Well, Krunk is the brainer? Hey Krunk, do you think you could make some in your lab? (then go to the workspace rules to make it)
  • Oh yeah! You know Mikamuk the weapons merchant has a private stock, but he ain't handin' them out like candy, right? Maybe you could go down there and work something out, who knows...
  • etc, etc, etc

Hope that helps some?
- Alex

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Ebok

  • 415
Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2014, 07:56:42 PM »
Thanks for such answers guys! YOu really helped me a lot! I ve got another question - If a character have both Merciless +1 harm and Bloocrazed +1 harm, does it mean he ve got +2 harm ?

I figure I might as well comment on this as well. The answer is Yes, of course. You should make sure you follow that with, you have a hard time NOT being brutal or merciless, and if they go to just slap a bitch for getting uppity on them, they instead hit her closed fist, not once but thirty times. By the time he's done slapping her, she's taken 2-harm and is either going to die or already dead.

That's the gun-lugger trying to do 0-harm. Ask the player, are you sure this is the type of guy you're playing? If they answer yes, then sure! Go right ahead. Just keep in mind, they dont get to turn the +1-harm off just cause they wanted to. However, If they push a guy... maybe they actually don't even deal 0-harm. Basically, if they tried to hurt them, they went to far. Universally.

If they shot the guy dead, maybe they dropped another 30 rounds into their face to delete them from the world. That's a 2-harm handgun dealing 4-harm. 4-harm to an NPC is enough damage to scatter them all over the place. >_>; If they're in armor, well, that depends on the fiction at that point.

Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2014, 07:40:58 AM »
If Gunluger have "Not to be f*cked with" and ap armo, so he have 3 ap dmg and armor according to situation?

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Munin

  • 417
Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2014, 08:47:46 AM »
I'd say so, yes.

Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2014, 12:01:34 AM »
THanks for help guys. New question.
Its about social moves in character vs character in game. The main question is- if character rolls sucseed so other character must  obey his wish, if it is manipulate move for example? What means acting underfire if dont want to obey in this situation? Like starting a fight? Or smth else? How can a character not to obey if his opponent suceed in a roll?
Same thing also with seize by force . So look like the first who wants to use a roll and if his roll is good- win in social battle?

Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2014, 05:19:31 AM »
You can be really persuasive and I could simply disagree because of different views.  You might roll +10 and your offer is tempting so I might doubt myself, break concentration and simply struggle to react quicky and effectively. That would be me Acting Under Fire.

The fight in between you just take both their rolls and compare. They still shoot both of each other. Though one rolled 10+ and got to do +1 damage by aiming at torso. The other player with a 7-9 only took definite hold and pierced a limb. Play up the exchange and then offer them  different options and compare rolls again.

They get advantages for rolling well but that doesnt mean they get exactly what they want (unless its double 6's versus snake eyes. The players are all special. Player Kill has to feel like they fought well and earned it.

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Munin

  • 417
Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2014, 09:44:14 AM »
The main question is- if character rolls sucseed so other character must  obey his wish, if it is manipulate move for example? What means acting underfire if dont want to obey in this situation? Like starting a fight? Or smth else?
It could be anything, but whatever you're doing it is something that is done "under fire."  There's a good thread about this here. Ebok and I both give examples of what this might look like at the end of that thread.

How can a character not to obey if his opponent suceed in a roll?
The issue you're touching on is "player agency." In all but a few rare circumstances, the player always gets to decide what actions his or her character does or does not attempt. Your roll to seduce or manipulate merely sets the boundaries or conditions under which my character acts. All that acting under fire really means is that the action you are taking has some risk, i.e. it might end up costing you something. What is at stake is up to the MC (who is staying true to the fiction), who will interpret the result of the roll to act under fire normally. The action that the player is taking "under fire" could be very passive (the example I used in the thread I linked above was simply, "I ride away"), so as the MC you might need to be creative.

Same thing also with seize by force . So look like the first who wants to use a roll and if his roll is good- win in social battle?
Be a little careful here.  Seize by force and seduce or manipulate have very different triggers. Sieze by force is specifically about using physical violence to achieve your goals. You're not "telling someone what you want," you're taking what you want. But you are doing so in a way that exposes you to violence in return (because if you are not exposed to violence in return, that is going aggro). So when you use the term "social battle," make sure you're not mixing up which move you're talking about here.

But if you're talking about two characters actually engaging in violence, then yes, seize by force might be appropriate. As for who gets to roll it, look to the fictional situation. Each move has a trigger, and you'll need to look at how the move triggers based on how the players describe their characters' actions. So if two PCs have their guns drawn and are engaged in a tense "Mexican Standoff," as soon as one of the players says "I shoot," that has triggered the move. Keep in mind that the other player can interfere with the roll. Also make sure that you (and everyone involved) understand what might be involved in the "take definite hold of it" option because that speaks to each character's immediate goals (examples might be "disarm my opponent" or "close and grapple" or "get out the door" or "get to cover").

And as soon as the effects of that first seize by force are resolved, you might want to ask the other player, "what do you do?" If their response is something that would trigger a move, then resolve that and so on.

Does this help?

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noclue

  • 609
Re: Questions and answers...
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2014, 02:01:35 PM »
THanks for help guys. New question.
Its about social moves in character vs character in game. The main question is- if character rolls sucseed so other character must  obey his wish, if it is manipulate move for example? What means acting underfire if dont want to obey in this situation? Like starting a fight? Or smth else? How can a character not to obey if his opponent suceed in a roll?
Same thing also with seize by force . So look like the first who wants to use a roll and if his roll is good- win in social battle?
The confusion I think you're having is that you don't have to obey the other character if they win the Manipulate roll. You also do not have to obey the other character if they win the manipulate roll, and then you Act Under Fire and roll a 6-. You never have to do what the other character asks. You just have to deal with the consequences of that miss and the GM's hard move. But, maybe you want to take the sweet, sweet XP instead of all that hassle.
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER