The Finder

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The Finder
« on: January 11, 2011, 02:51:48 PM »
I've worked this idea through a few cycles of revision with my homies at Snail's Pace before bringing it here, but I want to see if there are any more good comments that arise from the scrutiny of a wider audience (or Vincent, even). 

What I'd like to hear about:
  • This character is supposed to be a bounty-hunter or master-thief kind of person.  Is that obvious from the description and moves?  If not, what should I be looking to change?
  • Are there any outright flaws?  I doubt it.  I suspect there are merely bits of style that individuals won't like -- and that's fine.  But if something is really borked, I'd like to know about it.
  • I think that playbooks should (and the extant ones normally are very good at this) allow you to create at least a few quite distinct characters.  Does this one do that?
  • This doesn't seem like a particularly necessary post-apocalyptic trope.  Is that a problem?
  • Do you see ways to retool any individual moves so that they are more interesting?
  • Would you consider playing this when presented with all the options?  Why not?
  • Anything else that I forgot or you think I ought to hear.

The Finder

Apocalypse World is dog-eat-dog.  People are always stealing shit or running off.  When folks need stuff, or need it back, they talk to you.

To create your finder, choose name, look, stats, moves and Hx.
 
Name:

Rhodesia, Ethan, Bail, Scout, Rover, Cycle, Skip, Dog, Queen, Rick, Domino, Scarecrow, Baby, Monkey

Look:

Man, woman, ambiguous, or transgressing

Utility wear, uniform wear, scrounge wear or luxe wear

Worn face, sharp face, cruel face, determined face, hard face

Clear eyes, suspicious eyes, unconcerned eyes, appraising eyes, hard eyes

Rangy body, sturdy body, stout body, strong body, small body
 
Stats:

Chose one set:

Cool-1 Hard=0 Hot+1 Sharp+2 Weird+1
Cool+1 Hard+1 Hot=0 Sharp+2 Weird-1
Cool=0 Hard-1 Hot-1 Sharp+2 Weird+2
Cool+1 Hard-1 Hot+1 Sharp+2 Weird=0

Moves:

You get all the basic moves.  You also get Single-minded pursuit and your choice of one of the other finder moves.

Finder Moves:

Single-minded pursuit: any time that you're not already in pursuit, you can name a person or thing -- one of a kind or one of a type, and now you are.  Make a note of it.  Your quarry must be completely unknown or have gone missing.  You'll be in pursuit until you've reached your target or discovered it destroyed.  Take +1 forward whenever you act directly in your pursuit.  When the MC thinks you're ignoring your quarry, you'll be acting under fire -- your thoughts keep going to the hunt.  When you do reach your quarry and are no longer in pursuit mark xp.

In the zone: when acting in pursuit, you take +1 armor -- you don't have time to get hurt.

Ripcord: Once you've acquired the subject of your pursuit, you both get back home.  Roll+weird.  On a 10+, spend 3.  On a 7-9, spend 1:
 - you got home without taking damage
 - you got home without being seen
 - you didn't take forever getting home
 - you remember how you got home

Gotta know where to look: find some place where you can think for a bit and name a person or thing -- one of a kind or one of a type, and roll+sharp.  On a hit, you figure out where it is.  On a 10+ you intuit some stuff about the surroundings or situation -- the MC will tell you what.

That one thing they need: any time you're using oddments for barter, it's worth one more.  The thing you're trading might not generally be worth that much, but you know that this person really wants or needs what you've got.

In and out: when you're seizing by force, you're a racoon, not a bear.  Roll+sharp instead of hard.  One of the options you choose must be to take definite hold of your goal.

Connects the dots: you get +1 to sharp (sharp+3)

Hx:

Everyone introduces their characters by name, look and outlook.  Take your turn.

List the other characters' names.

Go around again for Hx.  On your turn:
 - Decide if you're involved in a steady marcantile operation or more of a special operative.  If the former, tell everyone +1.  If the latter, tell everyone -1.

On the others' turns use any, all or none:
 - Choose a character you've done work for before.  Whatever number they give you, give it a +1.
 - Choose a character who has something you want.  Whatever number they give you, give it a +1.
 - Choose a character who stiffed you.  Whatever number they give you, give it a +2.

Improvement:
__ get +1 cool (max cool+2)
__ get +1 hard (max hard+2)
__ get +1 hot (max hot+2)
__ get a new finder move
__ get a new finder move
__ get a new finder move
__ get 2 gigs (detail) and moonlighting
__ get a gang (detail) for operations, and leadership
__ get a move from another playbook
__ get a move from another playbook

Re: The Finder
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2011, 05:20:00 AM »
I like the look of it, nice work. Seems perfectly playable to me.

Perhaps some kind of ability that lets him contain who/whatever he captures?

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Chroma

  • 259
Re: The Finder
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2011, 07:48:20 AM »
- Choose a character who stiffed you.  Whatever number they give you, give it a +2.
Wouldn't it be better to just give that person a straight Hx+3? (As in, "You *know* they are a weasel!")

By *adding* 2 to what they say, you're potentially marking experience during character generation... that doesn't sit right with me.
"If you get shot enough times, your body will actually build up immunity to bullets. The real trick lies in surviving the first dozen or so..."
-- Pope Nag, RPG.net - UNKNOWN ARMIES

Re: The Finder
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2011, 09:36:07 AM »
- Choose a character who stiffed you.  Whatever number they give you, give it a +2.
Wouldn't it be better to just give that person a straight Hx+3? (As in, "You *know* they are a weasel!")

By *adding* 2 to what they say, you're potentially marking experience during character generation... that doesn't sit right with me.
Yeah, weird.  I actually made that exact change at one point but it looks like a save got lost on one of the revisions.

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DWeird

  • 166
Re: The Finder
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2011, 02:36:17 PM »
"Hmm, now where did I put that apple?"
'You are now in pursuit of an apple'
"Ah, there it is!"
'You mark XP.'

Other than that, it seems very fine!

Oh wait no, I do have a little rant, one that isn't specific to your playbook, but I think is important. Sharp - it is already a very useful stat, the stat of stats so to speak, as it grants you a +1 to almost any task.

With Connects the Dots, In and Out, and, say, Driver's Good in a Clinch... You essentially get a reliable +4 to under fire and seize by force, which is insanely powerful, and possibly frustrating to an MC or even the player, eventually.

How about a specialized violence move instead, one that takes into account the fact that Sharp is all about situational awareness?

How about... Know when to fold 'em - when reading a sitch, you can spend your hold to cause harm instead of asking questions.

Or, alternativelly, a specialized "you get that thing!" move, if that was more your angle. No idea what one would look like, though.

Re: The Finder
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2011, 03:23:57 PM »
Daumantas, thanks!

I hadn't thought of the trivial XP issue.  On the other hand, XP is so easy to get that I wonder if that's really a concern.  If I did want to approach fixing that, what do you think would be a good approach without neutering the move?  Can the "Your quarry must be completely unknown or have gone missing" be tweaked to make it clear that it has to be genuine?  Or should you maybe just not be a dork about stuff?

And don't forget the Battlebabe's Perfect instincts!

I'm going to let your comments about Sharp percolate and see if anyone else comments.  One of the comments I got before coming here was that no other playbook gives a move that allows sharp to go +3 so it's kind of a game-changer.  I'm not sure that's a problem, but it is a thing.

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DWeird

  • 166
Re: The Finder
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2011, 04:44:12 AM »
I don't think the XP is really an issue. "One of kind or type" "Completelly unknown or missing" are sufficient for this.

In the above situation, it would probably be enough to say "Is the apple one of a kind?", and then either shake your head on a no, or ask "Okay, why? Is fruit particularly rare here, or what? How did an apple even get here if so?" on a yes.

So basically, easily countered by regular MC principles.

The sharp issue... Yeah, it's a thing.

Re: The Finder
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2011, 11:45:45 AM »
I like it! What sort of artwork are you considering?

And also...

Quote
That one thing they need: any time you're using oddments for barter, it's worth one more.  The thing you're trading might not generally be worth that much, but you know that this person really wants or needs what you've got.

...what's your fictional basis for this ability? Is there a particular bounty-hunter/detective you have in mind who does this?

Re: The Finder
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2011, 02:53:19 AM »
I generally like it, but hate ripcord. It's a scene/story level move that completely violates "to do it, do it."

If the trip home isn't interesting, it'll get skipped anyways. If the trip is interesting, then you're losing out. It bypasses good fiction and violates the boundaries between MC and player.

Also, I have no idea how to use Ripcord if The Finder is traveling with a group.

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Chris

  • 342
Re: The Finder
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2011, 08:46:48 PM »
I generally like it, but hate ripcord. It's a scene/story level move that completely violates "to do it, do it."

If the trip home isn't interesting, it'll get skipped anyways. If the trip is interesting, then you're losing out. It bypasses good fiction and violates the boundaries between MC and player.

Also, I have no idea how to use Ripcord if The Finder is traveling with a group.

Yeah. I'd like the reverse though. Like Bonefeel. But for finding peeps.
A player of mine playing a gunlugger - "So now that I took infinite knives, I'm setting up a knife store." Me - "....what?" Him - "Yeah, I figure with no overhead, I'm gonna make a pretty nice profit." Me - "......"

Re: The Finder
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2011, 10:52:42 PM »
Suggestion:

Let ripcord give you a +1 forward to act to protect the subject of your pursuit after you've found it (Be it a person, thing, etc.) and have it offer +1 effective armor to your charge if she's a living thing as long as she's under your protection.

This lasts until you get home or are physically unable to protect your charge.

"My name is Scout, and I've come to bring you home."

Re: The Finder
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2011, 04:12:09 PM »
How about... Know when to fold 'em

Does the gambler playbook already exist, or is that what I'm doing this weekend?

Re: The Finder
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2011, 07:16:29 AM »
I generally like it, but hate ripcord. It's a scene/story level move that completely violates "to do it, do it."

If the trip home isn't interesting, it'll get skipped anyways. If the trip is interesting, then you're losing out. It bypasses good fiction and violates the boundaries between MC and player.

Also, I have no idea how to use Ripcord if The Finder is traveling with a group.

I was just looking back at this after giving it some time and discovered that I hadn't answered this -- but I'm sure I did, so it must have been swallowed by the elder gods, or y'know, a software glitch.  So there's a few things in this.

Yeah, I don't know how Ripcord would work with a group either -- I suppose the group would be left high and dry.  And there are times when that'd be cool and others where it wouldn't.

The move is supposed to encourage the player to put his character into positions that seem impossible.  I imagine a character, dropping from a skylight into a room with a hostage guarded by a medium well-armed gang, grabbing the hostage and pulling the Ripcord, as it were.  She maybe gets shot up as she comes dropping through, but then she isn't just killed straight out -- she gets away and the enemy gang is pissed.  It does omit the journey home, but I'm not sure I get the problem because: a) it's not like you have to use it and b) there's not a finite supply of interesting things to do -- you'll just move on to the next cool thing.  But I might also be missing part of you point?

Do Bonefeel or the Faceless special move violate "to do it, do it?"  If not, how's this different?

And I'd like to hear more about violating the boundaries between MC and player.