Combat

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Combat
« on: January 22, 2013, 02:05:57 PM »
Firstly, yes, i have searched for a good answer to this and have found some but none answer my question to my satisfaction.

I understand how the moved work in principle and how 'combat' flows. But i'm not clear on which moves to use.

The situation went something like this. Chopper in town bar with bystanders. Rival gang turns up, lays claim to town. They trade Words, rivals open fire. Chopper acts under fire to dodge, and then a second time to save a bystander.

So far so good.

Then he wants to dive through the window shooting the bad guys, why - because it sounds cool...and he wants to kill 2 of the gang. [i think this is where i started going wrong - still used to other games where the why is because i want them dead]. He rolls seize by force, messed up the roll so took damage. Fair enough. and if he had made the roll he would still have taken damage - which would have made sense.
Another PC turns up to help him. he rolls seize by force to rescue friend and hits a bad guy, taking tiny damage himself. This also makes sense as he walked into harms way. He then fired his gun to scare off pursuit by going aggro.

So for this, the moves worked. But...
What if the first or second PC wanted to take pot-shots from behind cover at the bad guys. would this still be seize by force if they are trying to kill them? Cos if the rolls were the same they would have taken damage from defensible positions...which seems odd.

I can see how it works most of the time, but there are others where i am thinking, what are they trying to seize, and mostly, why are they taking damage?

am i just used to other games where PC can deal out damage with nothing in reply?

help is much appreciated.

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noclue

  • 609
Re: Combat
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2013, 02:28:46 PM »
Does this thread help clear things up a bit?

And for the record, I'm with you. Taking pot shots from behind cover isn't seizing.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 02:35:06 PM by noclue »
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER

Re: Combat
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2013, 02:29:26 PM »
If you can't figure out what they're seizing, ask yourself if they're going aggro instead.  Do they want to take something or do they want to make someone do something?

As for taking damage from a defensible position, do you mean defensible or invulnerable?  Normally, particularly in post-apocalyptic settings, if you're in a position to deal damage, you're also in a position to receive it.  

When the player was diving out the window with guns blazing, what was the goal?  Surely not just to look cool?  To look cool while doing something would be my guess; what was that something?

Re: Combat
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2013, 02:52:42 PM »
Does this thread help clear things up a bit?

And for the record, I'm with you. Taking pot shots from behind cover isn't seizing.

Nope - read it in full before posting. In fact was going to reply to it, but got a warning due to age of thread! IT answered some of My qs, but not all. Thanks anyway.

Re: Combat
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2013, 02:54:45 PM »
If you can't figure out what they're seizing, ask yourself if they're going aggro instead.  Do they want to take something or do they want to make someone do something?

As for taking damage from a defensible position, do you mean defensible or invulnerable?  Normally, particularly in post-apocalyptic settings, if you're in a position to deal damage, you're also in a position to receive it.  

When the player was diving out the window with guns blazing, what was the goal?  Surely not just to look cool?  To look cool while doing something would be my guess; what was that something?

like i said, i forgot to ask. IT was the first combat action and i defaulted back to he wants to shoot this dude. Actually, that worked out. My concern is what happens if he wants to kill the guys (seize the street) but without leaving cover. Even on a 10+ he can expect to get hit...

Re: Combat
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2013, 03:21:11 PM »
Sounds like "Go Aggro" to me, or possibly just me as MC using my trust Deal Harm As Established, since I'm looking through crosshairs and that PC I'm a fan of has these  fuckers dead to rights. Really depends on how things play out. But yeah, unless the gangers are using some serious firepower that's going to blast through the cover the Chopper has, it ain't seize by force. Of course, if they do have a minigun or something, maybe the wall provides +1 armour.

*

noclue

  • 609
Re: Combat
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2013, 06:06:03 PM »
My concern is what happens if he wants to kill the guys (seize the street) but without leaving cover. Even on a 10+ he can expect to get hit...
Awesome, I'll play.

Harm as established.
Fido: "I duck behind these parked cars and start shooting anything that tries to enter the street."
MC: "Well, Millions and Jackabacka are out in the open. Your bullets zinging all around. Millions takes a shot to the leg and Jackabacka turns to help her get up. It's quite a struggle on account of how small Jackabacka is. You can see Balls up in that second story window with his SMG swinging around towards you. What do you do?"

Acting Under Fire.
Fido: "Well, they're still out in the open so I'm going to put a hole in them both."
MC: "Well, they still are out in the open, but Balls is pelting you with SMG fire. You're definitely Acting Under Fire here, make a roll.
Balls: "I got a 7. I guess I flinch."
MC: "Okay, you bring your rifle up but then the car hood in front of you is just riddled with bullets. They're plinging off in all directions. You pull back to protect you're head and Millions and Jackaback lurch into an open doorway, slamming the door shut behind them. What do you do?"

Going Agro
Balls: "Okay, I turn my rifle on Balls and scream 'That's the last time you get in my way! I open fire."
MC: "So, do you want to shoot Balls or would you be satisfied if he just left you alone to deal with Millions and Jackabacka?"
Balls: "I guess I'd save my ammo, if he'd stop shooting at me."
MC: "Roll to Go Aggro."
Balls: "Another 7. Sheesh."
MC: "Okay, Balls ducks back into the house. Everything's quiet on the street. What do you do?"
.
You can't answer these Seize by Force questions with vague hypothetical situations. You need fictional details.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 06:11:26 PM by noclue »
James R.

    "There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
     --HERBERT SPENCER

Re: Combat
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2013, 09:52:35 AM »
Even on a 10+ he can expect to get hit...
It feels like you're citing that as a problem.  To me, that sounds like a fire fight.  You might be giving the player a benefit of +1 armor because they're hiding behind solid masonry walls and shooting through a window.  They might roll a 10+ and they can choose to suffer little harm.  They're likely wearing armor 1 anyway.  So assuming the incoming attack is subject to the armor, it's doing normal harm -3.  Your PC might take a little, but not bloody much and at that point, well, that's the cost of going into a gun fight.  It's not a problem at all -- even if you don't give them the wall-as-armor.  Even if the enemy is using armor piercing ammunition.  A good roll means things don't go as poorly as they might have otherwise, not that everything happens perfectly. 

Re: Combat
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2013, 11:45:59 AM »
If they want to shoot people without being exposed to their fire their should flank them or kill them in their sleep.

Re: Combat
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2013, 12:14:25 PM »
Thanks guys, that helps makes more sense of it and gives me more options. Its a bit if an adjustment from others games, even dungeon world where on a 10 you take no harm.

Re: Combat
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2013, 12:28:27 PM »
Yeah, if they were to take pot shots, I'd ask what they were intending; is it cover fire to force them to keep their heads down (there is a battle move off cool, I think, to provide cover fire), are they carefully waiting for a jerk to poke his head out and then snipe him (acting under fire, perhaps?), are they madly firing bullets to try and intimidate the opposition (go aggro)?