Defy Danger + Anything Else

So, I tried DW yesterday...
And it was great, as I expected.
I obviously modified Load rule, because  +Str makes the Ranger already overload, and +Strength means you don't have to bother about load, ever. We use pure Strength as a maximum Load.

Anyway, I was wondering:
1- What if the Fighter tells me he want 2 twin short swords as a Signature Weapon?
I personally told him: 4 Weight total, power ups work with each one and you deal +1d4 damage.

2- What if someone is in a fight and wants to Discern Realities?
I made him Defy Danger (enemy's move) and on a hit you can Discern.
On a miss you take full enemy move, on a weak hit you have to pay soemthing to Discern, maybe you drop an item or something...

With dual wielding, personally I would just make it flavor with no additional damage. You use the two swords to block and attack and whatever bonuses and penalties you'd gain within the game fiction. Adding damage is kinda like getting a free level bonus.

I'm confused why you can't just Discern Realities during a fight. I guess if you mean "there's an attacker right up on you and you're acting defensively while you carefully size up the situation," then Defy Danger works. But if you mean "you're not immediately threatened but a battle is raging around you," then the move should just work as-is. If the player fails, the GM gets a hard move as usual and it could totally be "you didn't notice an enemy coming at you."

The move already has the built-in consequences of a hard move when you fail, I'm not sure you need to add a Defy Danger to it unlessnspecial circumstances warrant.

I you are dual wielding, you cannot use a shield.
I gave +1d4 to compensate and I don't see how it's like a free level, can you explain it to me, please?

About discern realities, you got it right, and I do things as you imagined.
So , tell me if you agree with theese scenarios:

1- PC is in battle, wants to Discern Realities (from now on: DR) and must first Defy Danger (from not on: DD). 7->9 and 10+ on DD : Good job, now DR
2- PC is in battle, wants to Discern Realities (from now on: DR) and must first Defy Danger (from not on: DD). 6 on DD: Hard move, golden opportunity, the enemy makes a full move against you.

3- PC is in battle, wants to Discern Realities (from now on: DR) and must first Defy Danger (from not on: DD). After DD, he rolls 7+ to DR: Good job, you read the scene.
4- PC is in battle, wants to Discern Realities (from now on: DR) and must first Defy Danger (from not on: DD). After DD, he rolls 6 or less to DR: Hard move, golden opportunity, you now take a move related do DR, not very much related to the danger you just overcome, else I would not be honest and I would have just ignore your previous roll.

Please tell me your opinion about theese scenarios, and sorry about my english, but it's not my first language.

look at the ranger's Viper Strike (or whatever is called now his dual-weilding move). As you can see, you can have bonus damage from dual-weilding only if you have a move that tells you so. Otherwise, it's just a matter of fictional positioning and advantage (which however is very useful, as I learned from practice). And if you're using weapons with different ranges (like dagger and short sword), it's all for the better because you can attack effectively at both.

One thing about Discern Realities and Defy Danger: you can't just say "I want to Discern Realities", you have to say what you're doing, and it's this action as described that tells you if before Discerning Realities you are Defying Danger.

Also, when scrape said that if the player fails, the GM gets a hard move as usual and it could totally be "you didn't notice an enemy coming at you", he's totally right; not only that, but you could add also "so the enemy stabs you in the arm, roll for 1d10 damage", if it makes sense.

Ok, but in this scenario the only class good at dual wielding is the Ranger.

What can I do? Would it be fair if I told the Fighter "ok, you can have Viper Strike as a power up, we will remove it from the Ranger because he is not interested in that move anyway".

I guess that the only advantage with a twin short swords dual wield is that we can arguably say that it's harder to be disarmed.

One thing about Discern Realities and Defy Danger: you can't just say "I want to Discern Realities", you have to say what you're doing, and it's this action as described that tells you if before Discerning Realities you are Defying Danger.

Also, when scrape said that if the player fails, the GM gets a hard move as usual and it could totally be "you didn't notice an enemy coming at you", he's totally right; not only that, but you could add also "so the enemy stabs you in the arm, roll for 1d10 damage", if it makes sense.

Ok, so basically you say: don't let him make a double roll, punish him for the danger he took in battle, if he rolled under 10 for Discern Realities in battle, else just say that he automatically overcome the danger.
If he instead rolls to Defy Danger, he has now some advantages, like "you pushed your opponent away, he is fighting to keep balance and his shield seems kinda useless right now"
Am I right?

I don't believe that you need to take Viper strike away from the Ranger move list, or add it to the Fighter's. The Fighter already has the option of choosing Multiclass dabbler that he can use to select a move from another class.  Seems like the perfect move in this situation. 

silly me, I did not check it...

So what about Discern Realities?

Defy Danger makes sense if, in this particular situation, the character is splitting his focus between an immediately threatening thing and noticing something else. But I usiaully just call for Discern, because the rules say that on a Miss you get to make a move, you know?

"I rolled a 5 for my Discern."
"Okay, you've failed. While you're distracted, the monster slashes you..."

You can add an additional Defy, but the move already has baked-in consequences. I think it all depends on the particular instance, every situation has its own circumstances.

Yeah, I would totally make him Defy AND Discern to see the illusory wall that is actually a trap... Fail it and take that trap damage as well !

I would encourage you to read 'signature weapon' as 'signature weapon system.'  A two handed sword, rapier and main-gauche, short sword and buckler, and long sword and free hand are all distinct ways of fighting with pro's and con's.  If they want two swords as their signature weapon [system], it has everything to do with the fiction and nothing to do with the mechanics.  They're going to do their class damage+enhancements no matter what their signature weapon is.

Yeah, I would totally make him Defy AND Discern to see the illusory wall that is actually a trap... Fail it and take that trap damage as well !

wait, if there is an illusory wall, Discern Realities is just enough, because on a miss you can activate the trap.

I would encourage you to read 'signature weapon' as 'signature weapon system.'  A two handed sword, rapier and main-gauche, short sword and buckler, and long sword and free hand are all distinct ways of fighting with pro's and con's.  If they want two swords as their signature weapon [system], it has everything to do with the fiction and nothing to do with the mechanics.  They're going to do their class damage+enhancements no matter what their signature weapon is.

Quoted for truth. Dual wielding totally has its uses in the fiction, and there are moves that might increase damage but otherwise it's just class damage (this comes up a lot).

I also wanna re-emphasize how vital it is to not make a catch-all rule about Discern in combat. Each situation is different and you should only call for additional moves if it makes sense for that particular instance. Case-by-case, always. It's good to remind players of this, especially if they're used to games where like "this is the rule for grappling and it always works this way."

Quote from: Rino on October 04, 2012, 11:58:25 AM

Yeah, I would totally make him Defy AND Discern to see the illusory wall that is actually a trap... Fail it and take that trap damage as well !

wait, if there is an illusory wall, Discern Realities is just enough, because on a miss you can activate the trap.

Uhm... Nope, because you are also Defying your opponent.. Right? :)

Quote from: mease19 on October 04, 2012, 12:00:44 PM

I would encourage you to read 'signature weapon' as 'signature weapon system.'  A two handed sword, rapier and main-gauche, short sword and buckler, and long sword and free hand are all distinct ways of fighting with pro's and con's.  If they want two swords as their signature weapon [system], it has everything to do with the fiction and nothing to do with the mechanics.  They're going to do their class damage+enhancements no matter what their signature weapon is.

Quoted for truth. Dual wielding totally has its uses in the fiction, and there are moves that might increase damage but otherwise it's just class damage (this comes up a lot).

I also wanna re-emphasize how vital it is to not make a catch-all rule about Discern in combat. Each situation is different and you should only call for additional moves if it makes sense for that particular instance. Case-by-case, always. It's good to remind players of this, especially if they're used to games where like "this is the rule for grappling and it always works this way."

This is very interesting.
I think that a friend of mine would love to understand the general rule, but this is not the game with those things :P