prerelease comments / observations

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prerelease comments / observations
« on: August 11, 2012, 08:32:46 PM »
I guess no one's started this yet. So:

1) Yay! Thanks for the prerelease PDF!

B) In the first bit where the character classes are briefly introduced, there's no intro for the druid.

iii) It still seems odd to me to describe character creation, then put the basic moves. I expect the playbooks to come right after the character creation summary.

Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2012, 12:40:03 AM »

iii) It still seems odd to me to describe character creation, then put the basic moves. I expect the playbooks to come right after the character creation summary.


This (chapter order) is something we are VERY interested in discussing.

Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 02:59:06 AM »
I may just be missing it, but on what page does it mention that your mark xp on a miss?

Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 03:13:40 AM »
p.32 & p.35 in DungeonWorld_PreRelease.pdf has probably wrong black background.
Almost hides text.

*

Renee

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Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 03:46:22 AM »
I may just be missing it, but on what page does it mention that your mark xp on a miss?

I've searched the document a couple times and can't find that information either. As someone who's sort of late to the game (I've yet to have a chance to playtest, so never got in on the AG or any versions post redbook), I have FEELINGS about XP. :p

Also, not sure where the discussion on layout is going to happen, but the location of the move descriptions seemed inorganic to me as well.

Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2012, 04:36:16 AM »
I may just be missing it, but on what page does it mention that your mark xp on a miss?

I think that rule went bye bye in the final version of the rules. You only mark XP when you resolve a bond, fulfill your alignment, and answer the questions in the end of session move.

Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 08:21:04 AM »
I may just be missing it, but on what page does it mention that your mark xp on a miss?

I think that rule went bye bye in the final version of the rules. You only mark XP when you resolve a bond, fulfill your alignment, and answer the questions in the end of session move.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2012, 10:07:07 AM »
I asked about the exp for misses on the kickstarter page. It's still in and they're going to make sure it gets highlighted better.

As for the order of the basic moves and character creation, I think the current order is pretty good. The current flow I think is:

What is DW -> Basics of the mechanics -> Creating a character -> Basic/Special moves in detail -> Character classes in detail -> Gear/Magic -> GM stuff

So it's sort of light mechanics, light character, heavy mechanics, heavy character, no?

Or anyway, for me on the first time read I didn't really hang up on that flow. The hang ups I had was coming from a traditional rpg background and sort of groking how the mechanics themselves work. I think the book does pretty well with examples though.

Down the road a bit if they wanted to aim this game at pure newbies I'd recommend a separate 10-15 page starter guide. Have 4 simplified pre-made characters(fighter, wizard, thief, cleric) and a short adventure that has specific moves each character can do and how to react to the moves written out. Very much an A, B, C of how to play a rpg and DW in particular. Something like how 1983 red box Basic Set D&D walked the reader through the mechanics.

Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2012, 01:56:59 PM »
Would it be better to have basic mechanics, basic moves, basic character, character classes, gear/magic?

Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2012, 03:25:01 PM »
Would it be better to have basic mechanics, basic moves, basic character, character classes, gear/magic?

To me it would. Dracones might be right about the reasoning, but having a reason for an order doesn't make it automatically a good order for readers. To me, the current arrangement just means jumping back and forth between things. It's not like I'm going to remember the order of character creation after reading through it once. I want to read it and then immediately see what these choices are like, in the classes. Or to use it to create a character, which means not flipping past an unrelated chapter.

Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2012, 03:28:03 PM »
Unrelated: I'm on "Hack & Slash" in the basic moves chapter, pp 48+, and there sure are a lot of Stray Capital letters, sometimes in the midDle of words. Unless reStrained means something specific to this game.

Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2012, 03:32:00 PM »
Unrelated: I'm on "Hack & Slash" in the basic moves chapter, pp 48+, and there sure are a lot of Stray Capital letters, sometimes in the midDle of words. Unless reStrained means something specific to this game.

Update: at least some of those appear to be the unintended side effects of find and replace work, like poINT, and probably Concentration. reStrained may be the same thing--that STR might have been caught in a sweep for strength abbreviations, or the word Strength.

Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2012, 03:47:56 PM »
you are right about "stat replacement", but not only (2 strange text sequences):
Quick search for "small+upper+any" gives:

"there or they're reStrained and helpless—then that's not Hack and "
"GM: Jarl, you’re up to your not-inConsiderable belly in "
"GM: The orc collapses in a bloody heap! The seCond orc "
"freezes just for a seCond and then he’s grinning at you "
"poInt."
"3. Is that enough to diStract him, at least?"
"Lux: I’m on it. I spend a poInt of my hold to redirect the "
"illusions—magical or otherWise."
"Unless a move says otherWise players can only ask questions "
"and accept death at this poInt—that's okay. Let him create a new "
"to new story tWists, Changes in Alignment, bonds, and in overall "
"wake from at least a few unInterrupted hours of sleep "
"your hit poInts as usual, but only mark off a ration if you're eating "
"longer relevant, or otherWise). Ask the player of the "
"you're under the care of a healer (magical or otherWise) "
"relatively lawful establishment of monStrous species, such as orcs or "
"lizard man? It stabs youCaught in a landslide? Rocks fall on you."
"not, as you might hope, a wall of stone. It’s much more porousPlaces "

Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2012, 05:38:50 PM »
And that's why "match whole words only" is your friend when find/replacing. :) See also the infamous "1d6 dawizard per level" from the old Wizard's Spell Compendium.

Re: prerelease comments / observations
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2012, 06:30:28 PM »
I was convinced to join the kickstarter by the promotional efforts of The Bear Swarm and John Wick.  This prerelease is my first look at the rules.  I am loving it so far, though I am still only about halfway through.

I have noticed some unclear things and some errors, so I'll chime in...

P.65, first line, "...he knows he lives on borrowed him."

P.66, "It effects what moves you can make" where "affects" would be more appropriate.  Ditto on p. 139 "effected as usual".  p.144 "effects the illusory image", and "capable of sleeping are effected."

Some of the multiclass moves are unclear, particularly in the Druid's case ("Hunter's Brother" and "Stalker's Sister").  Is the Druid limited to the starting Ranger moves, or can the Druid select Advanced Ranger moves?  If the latter, does the Druid select from the Advanced Ranger moves as if he were one level lower than his actual level?

More an observation than a criticism, but the Ranger move "God Amidst the Wastes" and the Paladin's "Divine Favor" are explicitly weaker the later in the game they are chosen.  Contrast the description in the Fighter's "Multiclass Dabbler" move, when a Fighter picks wizardly or clerical spellcasting.

The Bard move "It Goes to Eleven" is hard to interpret.  The 10+ effect seems like it could be tactically useful to use on either allies or enemies.  However the written consequence for rolling a 7-9 "but then takes +1d4 damage ongoing as the music invigorates it" is extremely unclear.  Who is being invigorated, and taking more damage because of this invigoration?  If this means your enemies are taking more damage, why is rolling in the 7-9 range a more desirable outcome than rolling higher? 

I know nitpicks make me sound like I'm pissing on a hot fudge sundae, but honestly: holy damn do I want to run or play in this game.