Levels in the Fiction

Hey all,

I was just looking over the rules for the Wizard, about how they get a new spell every level, and I thought: what does that mean for the Wizard as a character, as a part of the story. Does he suddenly realize how to do a new spell that he's been studying in his book? Does the power of magic now flow more strongly through him, enabling him to get greater power over it? There are undoubtedly lots of fishy answers we can use to try to make it make sense, but more often than not, we just don't question it -- he just gets the new spell and that's it. Dungeon World is a game at that moment, not a story.

I think I'd need a solid fictional explanation for what's going on with levels to do this game justice as a player or GM, or else... why not just ditch them entirely? Apocalypse World gets along just fine with advancements every 5 xp, but no measure of "levels" as such, why not Dungeon World too? Already, monster levels have been removed because they don't mean anything in terms of fictional positioning.

Are player levels so *core* to the old-school-dungeon-delving fantasy experience that they simply cannot be done without? If so, why not make them integral to the new-school-dungeon-delving fantasy story we still want out of the game?

Earthdawn, that old gem, called them "Circles," and it was something characters actually talked with one another about in the fiction. It was a measure of how powerful and renowned you were to say you were a "10th Circle Beastmaster," in their world, a bit like terms such as, "4-star general," "green beret," or "black belt" in ours.

I suggest we go one way or the other with Dungeon World. Put levels in the fiction or take them out of the game.

BX had titles for each level, maybe you could just port them over and have the 'level' as a mechanical iteration of advancement. You do still need character levels as it gives that old school milestone reward, plus some moves and class traits (such as the spell levels you mention) relate specifically to levelling up.

Titles is a good idea. Might be kind of hard to make them work for each class though. I'm not sure how BX managed it.

Also, of course Dungeon World in its current state requires levels for many of the moves and other things to work, but it needn't be that way. Apocalypse World doesn't work that way, nor do many other fantasy roleplaying systems other than Dungeons and Dragons. Yet all these systems also have good milestone rewards, and in my opinion a similar system of advancement would not spoil the old-school feeling.

"Level" doesn't really mean anything but "number of advances you've gained" as that equates to a vague measure of gained skill. We use it a few places as a bonus (like heal +your level) just like we use +Str to represent your level of strength.

We've deliberately removed it as a measure of anything but characters, and there it's just a shorthand for overall advancement, like +Str is a shorthand for how physically strong you are and how well you use that.

We don't really want level to mean more than that. Just like the stats its an out-of-game abstraction of a general in-game thing.

Gaining a spell at a new level is no weirder than suddenly figuring out how to empower your spells, or get more out of your signature weapon, or whatever. There's a slight oddness to it, but think of it this way: your character has been trying to figure out this cool thing (new move or spell) for a while, but at some point it clicks and they can start using it.

Its easy enough to ask questions and use the answers too! So if your group is into the abstraction of levels and chooses advances with no issues as to the fictional How? or Why? then that's cool. If you want to dig deeper, just ask a few questions as GM and then use what they give you to re-corporate in play. Easy.

So you gained a few HP? What does that represent for you? Are you tougher now, or has all that training has paid off? Or are you simply more aware and thus able to make a few more mistakes?

What about your advance? Tell us how you came to understand this new skill / spell / ability.