2-armor

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Re: 2-armor
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2012, 10:38:13 PM »
And then every so often, shoot him, too. Sure, Bruce Willis wins every action scene but that's a big part of why Die Hard gets watched again and again.

Re: 2-armor
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2012, 07:49:17 PM »
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I think that is part of what had me concerned about a character that was always wearing full on invulnerable armor, it lacked realism. The shit is hot and uncomfortable. Who spends their entire day in full body armor on the off chance someone might decide to start a fight? To me, wearing full body armor at all times feels "gamey".
But he isn´t walking all day in full body armor. Remember, 1-armor might be just motorcycle jackets, that isn´t so hard to wear all day. The extra +1 armor comes from a character move, and you can´t take that away from him. So I´d just look for other ways to put him into danger.

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Imagine all those people, shooting rifles at someone who is not at all trying to protect themselves, just walking cooly up to their leader. Even with 2-armor, that should leave a dent, I feel. In that scene, Apocalypse World did not seem real to me.
Did de player say his character was walking cooly up to their leader? If he said so, I wouldn´t have him roll "ok, so they have plenty of time to aim for your head, that´s 2 harm AP until you reach the leader. Are you sure you just want to walk up to him?"
But he rolled "seize by force" and chose the "receive 1 less harm", so I´d assume he was running from cover to cover, trying to avoid bullets as he closed. Doesn´t it make sense?

Re: 2-armor
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2012, 03:08:22 AM »
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I think that is part of what had me concerned about a character that was always wearing full on invulnerable armor, it lacked realism. The shit is hot and uncomfortable. Who spends their entire day in full body armor on the off chance someone might decide to start a fight? To me, wearing full body armor at all times feels "gamey".
But he isn´t walking all day in full body armor. Remember, 1-armor might be just motorcycle jackets, that isn´t so hard to wear all day. The extra +1 armor comes from a character move, and you can´t take that away from him. So I´d just look for other ways to put him into danger.

The specific case I was raising was someone with 2-armor and 1-armor from Rasputin for a total of 3-armor. The question I should have put forth was "do you all let people walk around in 2-armor all the time or do you put some restrictions on it?"

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Arvid

  • 262
Re: 2-armor
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2012, 05:18:33 AM »
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Imagine all those people, shooting rifles at someone who is not at all trying to protect themselves, just walking cooly up to their leader. Even with 2-armor, that should leave a dent, I feel. In that scene, Apocalypse World did not seem real to me.
Did de player say his character was walking cooly up to their leader? If he said so, I wouldn´t have him roll "ok, so they have plenty of time to aim for your head, that´s 2 harm AP until you reach the leader. Are you sure you just want to walk up to him?"
But he rolled "seize by force" and chose the "receive 1 less harm", so I´d assume he was running from cover to cover, trying to avoid bullets as he closed. Doesn´t it make sense?

Actually, he did. The player said something like "Sieze by force: I walk up to Sun and grab him"

The conclusion I've come to is that I should have clarified expectations. "That sounds like what you're really doing is first just walking up to him, getting shot, and then siezing by force." or "How do you suffer little harm, if you're not protecting yourself?"

If the player answered "Oh, I can totally use force by simply walking up to someone", "Getting shot doesn't really bother me anymore" or "They're too scared of me to shoot straight" that would be no problem. My objective is to provide a consistent world, not get at the players.

Re: 2-armor
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2012, 07:09:32 AM »
The specific case I was raising was someone with 2-armor and 1-armor from Rasputin for a total of 3-armor. The question I should have put forth was "do you all let people walk around in 2-armor all the time or do you put some restrictions on it?"
Well, in that case I´d look for moments when he´s not wearing it: they attack while he´s sleeping, having sex, drinking at the club, etc.
If the character insists on using armor all the time, make a hard move or rather have NPCs react to that. A girl could mock on a PC for trying to dance in the bar while wearing full armor. Hard moves might include -1forward, acting under fire, etc.
Also, a PC failing a move against a gang might see himself overwhelmed while many hands remove his helmet. A hit on a 0harm move roll might have one piece of his armor drop, break or ruin, leaving himself exposed for easy AP harm. After the battle, repplacing that part would be easy task, not even 1 barter. But in the moment, is serious trouble.
Anyway, don´t do this all the time. After all, you´re still a fan of the characters and having their badass armors shine is part of that.

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If the player answered "Oh, I can totally use force by simply walking up to someone", "Getting shot doesn't really bother me anymore" or "They're too scared of me to shoot straight" that would be no problem. My objective is to provide a consistent world, not get at the players.
Don´t overlook that you have to make AW seem real. If the player chooses to suffer little harm while seizing by force, something has to happen in the fiction to make that possible. It could be running and dodging, it could be the PC being faster than his enemies, shooting them before they can aim, it could be what you said, all of them becoming too affraid to shoot at the moment. Whatever it is, less bullets hit the PC. but it just can´t be the character walking idly and eating up all the lead. Because then what happens is what you felt then, that AW is not that real (I´d feel that too).
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 07:13:51 AM by Khimus »

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Chroma

  • 259
Re: 2-armor
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2012, 02:55:58 PM »
Don´t overlook that you have to make AW seem real. If the player chooses to suffer little harm while seizing by force, something has to happen in the fiction to make that possible. It could be running and dodging, it could be the PC being faster than his enemies, shooting them before they can aim, it could be what you said, all of them becoming too affraid to shoot at the moment. Whatever it is, less bullets hit the PC. but it just can´t be the character walking idly and eating up all the lead. Because then what happens is what you felt then, that AW is not that real (I´d feel that too).
The movie "Tombstone" has an excellent example of this in a gunfight, with a "PC", Wyatt Earp,  striding straight towards the enemy, their guns blazing at him, and them just missing... and it's based on a real happening!
"If you get shot enough times, your body will actually build up immunity to bullets. The real trick lies in surviving the first dozen or so..."
-- Pope Nag, RPG.net - UNKNOWN ARMIES