manipulate and acting under fire

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manipulate and acting under fire
« on: July 21, 2010, 08:10:07 AM »
So I've got my guy, Proust, and say he wants Ozair to do something for him, like lend me his car.

He's clearly not going to just lend me the car because come on, so I manipulate him and get a 7-9. I choose "if you don't do it, it's acting under fire."

So what happens if Ozair blows his acting under fire roll? What's the fire in this case? Anyone have some AP examples?

Also, when it's PC vs. PC, does the MC step in if I get a 6- on my manipulate roll and say what happens?
"I don't care what Wilson says." -- some slanderous bastard on the internet

Re: manipulate and acting under fire
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2010, 09:53:49 AM »
On the last bit, yup, at least as I understand it, you step in and make a move, as hard as you like, as normal. I usually go with "Offer an opportunity, with or without a cost" to the person who was unsuccessfully manipulated. Usually without a cost, and usually it's a pretty sweet opportunity, at least to be harsh to the person who just manipulated them.

A lot of the time, though, you won't even need to make a move. In my experience, when a PC tries to manipulate a PC and fails, the unmanipulated PC is more than happy to run with it on their own.

Re: manipulate and acting under fire
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2010, 05:16:07 PM »
You manipulate Ozair (the leverage is, hey, we're buddies, right?) and get a weak hit. He's manipulated! He allows that, yes, you are buddies. And buddies help each other out, generally speaking. But, like, this time? It's his car.

To deny you, he has to squirm out from under his own inclination in the moment (which inclination you have put there with your manipulative guilt-trip). He's acting under fire. The fire is this pressing issue vs. his self-interest. In this case, the fire is feeling guilty about denying a friend.

Can he just stroll away from the guilt-trip, care free? On a 10+, yep. On a miss, the MC says what happens, and Ozair isn't going to like it. For my move, I'd probably ask him, "So, what gives here? You gonna tell Proust that NO you are NOT buddies like that? Are you gonna offer to drive him yourself? Are you gonna tell him that you know where Keeler keeps the keys to her bike?"

("Offer an opportunity with a cost")

That's about when Ozair wishes you had just offered him experience to loan you the car.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 05:25:21 PM by John Harper »

Re: manipulate and acting under fire
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2010, 05:22:43 PM »
I think I'm actually more curious about what you'd do with the 7-9 on that roll, John.

Re: manipulate and acting under fire
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2010, 08:24:21 PM »
I'm not John, but... Okay, so they're not doing what the person manipulating them wants to do. What are they doing instead?

Now, offer them a worse outcome. (Or a hard bargain, or an ugly choice, as you see fit)

Because the guilt of turning down their friend is messing up their game just a little.

Re: manipulate and acting under fire
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2010, 08:36:51 PM »
Well, sure, Ben...  I guess I was hoping for an example.  :)  This is one that I have a little trouble visualizing.

Re: manipulate and acting under fire
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2010, 11:15:32 PM »
I personally like "so you're so pissed off about him pressuring you for your fucking car that you need to drive away to cool off. You can totally get out from under it, if you drive off down the road away from the base. Alone. Like way out from the base. Alone. Just get out there and let the open road and your car cool you off. Its not like the Reavers have been spotted out that way, not at all..."

(Yes, I go Mad Max every chance I get, piss off.)

Or, because I actually saw this shit in real life once, "You can totally freak out and slash your own tires and then ask him if he wants to borrow the car now."

Re: manipulate and acting under fire
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2010, 10:40:06 PM »
That's awesome, Brand, though I tend to squirm a little about the idea of telling players, "Now your character goes and does this thing that you didn't decide to do."

Re: manipulate and acting under fire
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2010, 08:18:23 PM »
Yea, I'd probably be less "you do this" and "you could do this." Its an offer, more than an override.

I don't like override either, but I'll make all sorts of colorful suggestions about terrible things.

Re: manipulate and acting under fire
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2010, 10:38:02 PM »
Let me see if I have a handle on this...

So, Proust and Ozair are PCs. Proust is trying to get Ozair to let him borrow Ozair's car. Proust rolls a 7-9 to Manipulate Ozair and chooses "if you don't do it, it's Acting Under Fire." Ozair says "Screw that! The last time you brought it back I had to replace two doors and a tire!", and stalks off.

So is it kosher for the MC to ask Ozair what he's doing next, instead of helping out Proust, and have him Act Under Fire on that (if it's a move, of course)? What if it's not a move? Like he says he just goes back to his bunk, gets drunk and goes to sleep? Would it be fair for the MC to save/hold that Act Under Fire until he makes his next move, or should it always follow immediately after the Seduce or Manipulate move?

Re: manipulate and acting under fire
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2010, 03:15:18 AM »
To me, the Act Under Fire applies to the very non-action that the PC wanted him to do, not to the other action he's doing in place of it. It's the refusing that is hard, not the replacement act.
And in my opinion, the fire is the culpability feeling, the self-loathing, the inner conflicting desires that are burning in the character's head.