Obvious Question re: Skinner's Move Hypnotic

Why would you make them spend on your moves? Give them the benefit of their spend and make your MC moves as normal. The MC can always make a move when it's their turn to talk.

The part in bold, you can't say that. What the PC says and undertakes to do belongs to the player, first and exclusively. So you can't really separate them just by relaying information alone. So that fits my definition of a screw job, since it is technically against the rules (though I don't claim it's malicious or anything).

Yeah, I see what you mean in that case. Now I must admit if was a 100% theoretical example. I usually don't do that in play.

(snip) Does that make sense, Greg? There might be some discrepancy between what you and I think each of those moves looks like in play. I hope these concrete examples bridge that gap.

Pretty much, yeah, thanks. Now I think about it I quite agree with you about my two examples (that aren't AP btw).

For the one you gave, if you ended with "what do you do", I'd mechanically count that as a move, but it's really no consequences except for semantics.

Why would you make them spend on your moves? Give them the benefit of their spend and make your MC moves as normal. The MC can always make a move when it's their turn to talk.

Because that's the way hypnotic works. Here's the actual text again, relevant part bolded :

Hypnotic: when you have time and solitude with someone, they
become fixated upon you. Roll+hot. On a 10+, hold 3. On a 7–9,
hold 2. They can spend your hold, 1 for 1, by:
• giving you something you want
• acting as your eyes and ears
• fighting to protect you
• doing something you tell them to

The victim of the move spend the holds, not the Skinner. So if the victim's a NPC, it's the MC who spend the hold.

Yeah, so I avoided replying earlier, but I think the discussion has revealed an interesting interpretations of of what constitutes an MC move and following the principles in applying it.

I mean, we don't name the move as an MC, we just take our turn in the conversation, or where the situation demands it right? So in the context of Hypnotic (the most complicated move in the damn game!), if you as MC spend an NPC's hold you are advised not to have them act against the skinner. This is good. But that's not to say you aren't making a move. 

Probably not a Hard move, but I can theorise many instances when your turn in the conversation is the utilisation of an NPC's hold under Hypnotic that is exactly a MC move as described and followed by the ubiquitous 'what do you do?'. Moves follow logically from what's going on in the fiction, they snowball, from player moves or MC moves.

There is no status quo in AW, remember? So as long as the players make moves and you honour their rolls, using the results to upset the balance is good MCing in my mind.

For instance the Skinner may ask an NPC they have previously hypnotised to do a thing, secretly hoping the MC will do just that, allowing hold to be used. The MC is a fan of the player's right? So yeah, you go with that, but it is such an opportunity for you make a move of your own. Player's moves, whether a success or fail or future hold set up MC moves a treat! They are designed that way!

'So you ask Furrball to use her clout with the murderous mutants to ensure they follow your orders? Furrball does just as you ask, wandering over, arms raised despite the risk - using up one of your hold over her.'

But then this is your chance to Bring it! Seperate them! Announce Future Badness, Take away their stuff, put them in a spot, turn their move back on them, tell them the consequences and ask, offer them an opportunity with or without a cost?

I can see endless tension narrative prompts that are responding with fuckery and intermittent rewards, and they are all MC Moves, just like the chapter on MCing describes how to use them.

So I would argue that yes, using up hold on NPC's under the influence of Hypnotic? Is making an MC move but misdirecting.

Enlightening post, Noofy, thanks. I'll add some things later, but I'd like to react to this :

So in the context of Hypnotic (the most complicated move in the damn game!),

No shit. Try to uncoil this fucker as per the moves' architecture chapter p.281 and see how many steps it takes. It took me a while to wrap my head around this one. Surprisingly, the Skinner's player got it in one and took it first thing when making his character. In fact that move is the reason why he took the Skinner playbook.

if you as MC spend an NPC's hold you are advised not to have them act against the skinner.

More than advised, I'd say. I left out the second part of hypnotic in my OP because I didn't find it relevant at that point of the discussion, but it goes on like this :

For NPCs, while you have hold over them they can’t act against you.

Relevant part bolded. As per the rules, you are expressly forbiden to make the NPC act against the Skinner, even when spending a hold (since spending a hold makes this NPC act).

I'm with you Greg :)
I'm glad that your player grokked the skinner straight off. I've not had anyone play one yet, and its a shame, they have such great socially manipulative moves.

In regards to not having an NPC act against the Skinner, that's not to say they can't be part of other, less direct MC moves! I love how Hypnotic has the potential to hand you as MC a golden opportunity on  a plate for a hard (Front?) move that isn't the resultant situation of a missed player roll. Hee!

The regular Player move sets up the hard move. The hard move follows through on the threat established by the regular move. Mr Harper sums it up beautifully:

Instead, when it's time for a hard move, look back at the setup move(s) you made. What was threatened? What was about to happen, before the PC took action? Follow through on that. Bring the effects on screen. Bring the consequences to fruition.

And speaking of consequences, a hard move doesn't automatically equate to severe consequences. The severity of the threat is a separate issue, depending wholly on the fiction as established. The hard move means the consequences, large or small, take full effect now.

So you aren't acting against the skinner through the NPC, you are offering an opportunity with or without a cost, or telling them the potential consequences and asking, or putting them in a spot.

I love love love Hypnotic :)

The victim of the move spend the holds, not the Skinner. So if the victim's a NPC, it's the MC who spend the hold.

Yes, but by doing those things. They act as your eyes and ears. That's a spend. Now while doing that it may give he MC an opportunity to make a move, like announcing future badness or presenting an opportunity, but that's a separate issue. Nothing prevents an MC making a move when they're talking.