Frustrated

I know at least two members of my group look at these boards, so I hope I won’t get flak for posting, but I’m really looking for suggestions. Basically I am dissatisfied and not sure how to proceed.

A little background is in order. My first character I really did like. He was a slightly vindictive, but very overprotective of his followers, Hocus. I came primarily in conflict with one member of the group because he had threatened me and hurt one of my followers over something trivial. Ultimately after another threat to the Hocus’s followers the hocus freaked that character out (using weird), and his companion, which caused them to retaliate and kill him and his followers.

Next character was very short since it was a Battlebabe who unlike the Hocus was very violent. After dealing with an uppity guard and looking for anyone else to talk to (which there wasn’t anyone who wasn’t dying of a plague) he threatened the guard to get some information. The guard told him he wouldn’t tell him who was in charge and the battle babe attacked. Only to be immediately jumped by 5+ heavily armored guards who showed up out of nowhere and proceeded to be knocked out / captured and left to die (however further attacks on guards since then haven’t caused anywhere near the response by  the guards). I had chance to salvage the character but without any gear I was apathetic to the idea.

So in order to keep a character around for more than 2 sessions I decided to go a more passive way. I brought in a skinner. Now, while the skinner hasn’t really ticked off any of the players or the NPCs, I am frustrated by my lack of exp gain. In two and a half session I haven’t even gained a single “level”. Last session one of the players leveled and brought in a new character. This character, in like 20 minutes, had already gained their fifth bubble of exp.

When I said how I felt that I was stagnant and don’t have many options, the GM and the other players blamed me for not doing more. They say that I should try to be manipulating every NPC I come across even though you need some sort of leverage to manipulate, something I don’t have.  Or instead of manipulating, seducing, and I really didn’t want to play a slutty character. The only other stat I have ever had highlighted is cool and I need to get In a fight to use that, which I am hesitant to try, since every time I’ve actually tried to fight on any of my characters I’ve nearly died or have died.

Should I just continue at my slow exp rate, and suck it up? Or should I try to be more aggressive like my last two characters risk getting killed, again, and having to start all over. I do like meeting up with them for the weekly game, but it seems with each session I’m having less fun.

Help?

Can you describe how you were jumped by the guards in more detail? Did you roll a Miss and then the MC's move was to separate you? I'm not understanding the bit about salvaging the character without gear. I'd be happy to play a battlebabe who was out to get the fucks who stole my gear. My last BB liked to walk naked through battlefields anyway, and I'm pretty sure I could figure out a way to score me a blade or convince the chopper to have his gang put the hurt on them for me.

Skinners are all about seducing and manipulating people. Of course, my Skinner is covered in scars from when Grievous drenched her in burning gasoline. So, that doesn't always work out as planned.

I'm not sure if the Skinner is a good fit if manipulating and Seducing people isn't your bag. Also, playing it safe in AW is never going to be fun. So don't do that. It does seem, however, that there is a dynamic at your table that isnt working yet.

I'd second noclue's comment that a Battlebabe without her gear is still pretty effective.

I can give you some advice on how to get experience more quickly as a Skinner, but the fact that you had two character deaths in quick succession and some other comments you made make me wonder if there aren't more serious issues with your table dynamics. I don't know your situation well enough to give specific advice but I'd make sure to talk to the other players about your frustration and make sure there aren't some unresolved issues.

As for using Manipulation, my first question would be what does your Skinner want? If you have an goal you are pushing towards you'll naturally find a lot of opportunities to manipulate characters to support that agenda. You mentioned that you were having a hard time finding leverage to use, I recommend reading other characters and asking what they want you to do or what you'd need to do to get them to do what you want, that may give you ideas for forms of leverage you didn't even realize you had.

What moves did you take? If you have Artful and Gracious, or Hypnotic, those are two more ways to roll Hot, the first of which is very easy to arrange.

I disagree with your statement that you need to get into fights to roll Cool, you act under fire any time you try to accomplish something while exposed to risk, which can include stealthy actions or maybe physically risky behavior like scaling a wall or walking on perilous ground. It can still be more challenging to arrange for Cool rolls than some other stats, but it may help if you keep in mind that it comes up in many risky situations outside of combat.

Hopefully that's helpful, and if you tell me more about your characters moves and goals I might be able to give some more concrete suggestions later.

Things are definitely wonky with the way everyone's looking at the game. After the guards took your stuff (a perfectly good hard move if you rolled a miss) did theMC turn to you and ask "what do you do?" Is the MC a fan of your character and playing to find out?

If that happened to Beastie I know what she'd do. Find one of them alone and bash his head in with a rock. Now I got me a gun. plus, the chopper has a space he wants filled on the back of his bike and that hocus has it out for the hardholder. That looks like an opportunity to recruit allies and trade my services for a weapon to me. Worst case, one murder by a BB is worth one barter. Im sure I know someone who's looking to off someone in Apocalypse World.

On the battlebabe:

The way i remember the guard fight i rolled a sucess (10+) to try to kill him (with my blade already to his neck). He apprently was heavly armored which i dident know, becuse i forgot to ask. Then he got a shot off and a sniper tower I dident know about either, again I dident ask since they where never mentioned, fired upon me. Next round I tried to finish the downed guard off, got a partial sucess, killed him and thats when i got jumped. When i attempted to look for a way out of there using sharp I failed and was hit for five damage and knocked out.

After i awoke i was at their boss, who i told i was looking for work as an assassin. He wouldent hear about it and i was hauled away by 2+ guys (sans everthing i had) to be hung up and left to rot. When i tried to escape i failed, again. After loosing everthing, suffering damage, making a enemy of the most powerful hardholder npc in the first 30 minutes, and being hung by my hands over a gate out of the city; i just figured i couldent play the aggressive guy that i wanted to, so thats why i gave up on him.

On the skinner:

I do have Artful and Gracious, which i took singing as my art, but to my mind there hasen't been many chances for me to use it (ive even looked for work but couldent find any). Reading peaple is something i should have been doing to look for manipulation, but i guess i spaced that.

As far as motivation of the skinner i was guess thats something ive been lacking. Ive just been trying to get along with the other characters while looking for work to earn barter. In my mind the skinner is looking for potential allies/resources to help protect her since she cant fight very well.

The thing is that you can be aggressive with your moves without being violent, and it's clear that violence isn't going to work because of the way your MC is running the game. Is it possible that s/he has some animus toward you? Or is this just some kind of misunderstanding?

I suggest that you ask people to highlight other stats. It isn't really cool for people to highlight your cool if it's obvious that you're rarely in a situation to use it, so point that out and be like, 'why not highlight my sharp or weird instead?'

Sharp and weird, once you have them highlighted, are great for getting exp because you can read situations and people till the cows come home. Opening your brain is similarly great.

Also don't forget that you can manipulate with barter, which as a skinner you do start with a little of. Artful & Gracious can net you more resources (in the form of barter, information, favors) to use as leverage. Can you get the Operator's move and some gigs?

The way i remember the guard fight i rolled a sucess (10+) to try to kill him (with my blade already to his neck). He apprently was heavly armored which i dident know, becuse i forgot to ask. Then he got a shot off and a sniper tower I dident know about either, again I dident ask since they where never mentioned, fired upon me. Next round I tried to finish the downed guard off, got a partial sucess, killed him and thats when i got jumped. When i attempted to look for a way out of there using sharp I failed and was hit for five damage and knocked out.

If this is how it happened it seems your MC is either cheating or hasn´t read the rules.

OK. Wait...

The way i remember the guard fight i rolled a sucess (10+) to try to kill him (with my blade already to his neck).

So, you had your knife to this guy's throat. The MC didn't name him? Tsk, Tsk. First mistake.

Did you want something from him? Or were you just killing him? That's the first question. If you were like "I put my knife to his throat and back him the fuck down or I slice him." That's a move (Going Agro. On a 10+, they have to choose: force your hand and suck it up, or cave and do what you want.)

If you were just "I'm a cut this dude. I fucking open his throat." The MC's first thought should be whether that's even a move. He's got his NPC in the Crosshair's right? Maybe the guard is bleeding out at your feet when the sniper in the tower fires.

He apprently was heavly armored which i dident know, because i forgot to ask.

It's not about whether you ask. The MC should be making apocalypse world seem real by telling you shit and inventing shit. The guard has armor fits the fiction. You're not going to see everything or know everything ahead of time. But, that's not really important. Is the guard in the MC's crosshairs? Is he thinking all the time about killing off his own NPCs, or is he invested in his NPCs rather than the PCs of whom he should be a fan? That's the issue. Why not have the guard dead and then make his next move?

So, let's give the MC the benefit of the doubt. He's a fan of your character and he wants to make your life interesting. His guard is just a tool that's he's kept alive for a bit. He has some options like offer you a choice. "You can kill this guard but you're acting under fire, because they've got a sniper in this big tower. You hear a ping as a bullet ricochets off the rock at your feet. What do you do?" That's a move.

Then he got a shot off and a sniper tower I dident know about either, again I dident ask since they where never mentioned, fired upon me.

What does "then he got a shot off" mean? The MC doesn't roll dice, so either the MC says "he takes a shot and misses you" or "He takes a shot. That's 2 harm to you."

Again, you don't have to know about shit like the tower. If the MC is making apocalypse world seem real and responding with fuckery and intermittent reward, a sniper tower is perfectly within reason. He shouldn't be dealing harm here, you rolled a 10+ but he could definitely have a sniper in the tower.

got a partial sucess, killed him and thats when i got jumped.

There aren't any rounds in AW. You've got the wounded guard bleeding at your feet and the sniper has just fired at you. The MC says "What do you do?" If you say I'm going to finish off this wounded guard," it's a valid MC move to say something like "You can kill him, but you're going to be acting under fire because of the five guards that are running out of the tower." Or the MC could be thinking, that's Seizing by Force (On a 7–9, choose 2:
• you take definite hold of it
• you suffer little harm
• you inflict terrible harm
• you impress, dismay or frighten your enemy)"

Did the MC offer you the choices? Or did he just deal harm? You didn't roll a miss, so the MC shouldn't be making a harm move here. But if you don't choose "suffer little harm" he can totally deal harm as established. And he's got dudes and snipers established.

When i attempted to look for a way out of there using sharp I failed and was hit for five damage and knocked out.

If that roll was a Miss, the MC can make a move, as hard a move as he likes. Deal harm as established (he's got dudes and snipers established).

After i awoke i was at their boss, who i told i was looking for work as an assassin. He wouldent hear about it and i was hauled away by 2+ guys (sans everthing i had) to be hung up and left to rot.

The MC is definitely not a fan of this PC. Why put you in front of the boss who is unresponsive and then haul you away from the boss if not to belittle you?

When i tried to escape i failed, again.

I don't even know what this means. You do something to escape. The MC asks you to roll. You roll a miss and the MC makes some kind of move and asks "What do you do?"

After loosing everthing, suffering damage, making a enemy of the most powerful hardholder npc in the first 30 minutes, and being hung by my hands over a gate out of the city; i just figured i couldent play the aggressive guy that i wanted to, so thats why i gave up on him.

Play with better MCs.

I have a hypothetical question... if you are attempting to make the world seem real and there is a Hardholder with a big gang (apparently) and snipers, where do you draw the line between being a fan of the PCs and penalizing them for bad choices.

If this Battlebabe, with no relation to the Hold or the holder, just walks in and starts executing guards... I'm not sure how play should have resolved if there were misses at inopportune times.

Well...
Making AW seem real does not mean making it realistic.
Fuckery does not mean fuck over.
And playing to find out means you don't have it in your head that the hardholder can't lose. What happens when Mad Max opens up in the middle of Town? Absolutely fucking anything happens.

The MC establishes situation and asks. If the battlebabe's choice is to hell with the consequences they can deal with the consequences. What you don't do is go from killing a guard to jumped by 5 dudes captured and stripped naked and ridiculed without the Battlebabe rolling a miss. The OP's Battlebabe rolled a 10+ followed by a 7-9.

The MC establishes situation and asks. If the battlebabe's choice is to hell with the consequences they can deal with the consequences. What you don't do is go from killing a guard to jumped by 5 dudes captured and stripped naked and ridiculed without the Battlebabe rolling a miss. The OP's Battlebabe rolled a 10+ followed by a 7-9.

Understood. However, repeated Misses and making poor choices could lead to a very quick and grisly fate.

I have a hypothetical question... if you are attempting to make the world seem real and there is a Hardholder with a big gang (apparently) and snipers, where do you draw the line between being a fan of the PCs and penalizing them for bad choices.

Why, exactly, do you want to penalize your PCs for bad choices? Bad choices are awesome and lead to all kinds of excitement!

It’s not, for instance, your agenda to make the players lose, or to deny them what they want, or to punish them,
or to control them,...

If people are making bad choices then the world will deform in response to those choices. You're absolutely right that when a battlebabe walks into that situation, if they blow a roll, they're going to be in the shit -- but shit's not permanent in Apocalypse World, and battlebabes are great at acting under fire.

On the skinner:

I do have Artful and Gracious, which i took singing as my art, but to my mind there hasen't been many chances for me to use it (ive even looked for work but couldent find any).

I'm sorry. That statement makes no sense. You use it when you want something. You use it when you want everyone's eyes on you and you alone because you're the fucking skinner.

Example: Ambergrease and his gang are across the ravine, threatening Hatchet City from their fortification. October doesn't know which side she's on, but she knows whichever one it is, she's going to be on the winning side. She steps out in full view and starts to strip. Everyone's eyes are riveted to her (I rolled 10+). Amber grease opens his gate to her gives her Kip to take along for my very own, and also with a message to the hardholder (this person must meet me. This person must have my services. This person gives me a gift.)

As far as motivation of the skinner i was guess thats something ive been lacking

.
It won't work without it.

Understood. However, repeated Misses and making poor choices could lead to a very quick and grisly fate.

Sure. Or not. MCs have moves like capture you, offer you a worse choice, take away your stuff. They can also deal harm. Things are going to get interesting that's for sure.

@pigeon is wise.

I do have Artful and Gracious, which i took singing as my art, but to my mind there hasen't been many chances for me to use it (ive even looked for work but couldent find any).

I agree with noclue, that makes no sense to say you can't use that move because you can't find work. You can use that move to get work. Walk up to a person you want to hire you, and sing. Choose "this person must have my services". Congratulations, that was your audition and you're hired! Alternately, cut out the middle man and just sing in the presence of someone who someone wealthy and choose "this person must give me a gift."

As far as motivation of the skinner i was guess thats something ive been lacking. Ive just been trying to get along with the other characters while looking for work to earn barter. In my mind the skinner is looking for potential allies/resources to help protect her since she cant fight very well.

In the rulebook there is advice for each character, and a warning. For the Skinner it is "Warning: skinner have the tools, but unlike hardholders, operators, and hocuses, they don't have a steady influx of motivation. You'll have most fun if you can roll your own."

As for the goals you are working on, as I mentioned above you can get work, or get barter directly, by singing in the presence of those who can provide it. If you are looking for more resources and allies, consider using that move for gifts, but also to make people fall in love with you.