So what's the fire when manipulating other PCs?

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So what's the fire when manipulating other PCs?
« on: July 11, 2011, 10:45:59 AM »
When you seduce or manipulate PCs, one of the possible outcomes is "if they try to do anything else, it counts as acting under fire."  I'm super awful at abstract things like this; I'm having trouble imagining what sort of harm, retribution, or danger would be appropriate for a PC who fails or even partially succeeds at acting under fire from seduction/manipulation.  Anyone done this yet, with good results?

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Chroma

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Re: So what's the fire when manipulating other PCs?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2011, 06:36:20 PM »
Anyone done this yet, with good results?

They keep thinking about how they failed you... just like they've failed everyone else...

Or they're scared about the vengeance you're going to take when they don't/can't deliver...
"If you get shot enough times, your body will actually build up immunity to bullets. The real trick lies in surviving the first dozen or so..."
-- Pope Nag, RPG.net - UNKNOWN ARMIES

Re: So what's the fire when manipulating other PCs?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 03:40:26 PM »
I liked Amphiprison's descriptions of self-generated "fire" and it totally makes sense, but I'm not totally sure I understand What mechanical effect does that have?

This is how I imagined it when reading the book's examples.

Bran knows that Keeler likes him (she's already confessed) so he tries to seduce her into getting some night-vision goggles for him. He rolls a 10+, so if she accepts this geas (and succeeds), she marks experience and might get laid (it's up to Bran).
If she refuses, or is unable to deliver, then she's acting under fire, so she rolls+cool.

If she gets a 10+, she is fine refusing and could walk away without a second thought.

If she rolls 7-9, then the MC could ask Bran what sort of fire he'll provide. Bran might give her a worse outcome like telling her to keep the hell away from him from now on cause she's a bitch. Or he might offer her a hard bargain, like telling her she'd better do what he wants or he'll tell everyone that she has the clap. Or he might offer her an ugly choice, like "Ok, forget the goggles. Prove you like me by blowing me right now, right here, or get out of my face and don't bring it up again."

Does this sound right, or am I missing something? If she were under fire from an NPC then the MC would be offering the results or choices, but I'm not sure how much he could come up with in this case since it's Bran who is really providing the fire, right?


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DWeird

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Re: So what's the fire when manipulating other PCs?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2011, 03:27:17 PM »
Manipulate PC fire is a hard thing, it's been a bit if an issue since playtesting.

Now, the answer is, as it always has been, "think about what'd be appropriate in the fiction and then hammer it hard."

But, if you're just looking for a failsafe that you can fall back on in case your mind draws a blank, here's a couple:

"You feel bad about it. -1 forward."
"You feel *real* bad about it. -1 ongoing until you do something to get this guilt off of you."
"As your standing there trying to come up with a good response, that dude from before - Dremmer, yeah? - shows up and points his guns at you. And his goons' guns."

Re: So what's the fire when manipulating other PCs?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2011, 04:12:27 PM »
It's worth pointing out that especially on a failed roll you don't need to define "the fire" specifically. When a player fails a roll it's the MC's opportunity to make as hard a move as she likes. If that means something related to the manipulation, bonus, but it needn't be, any more than any other failed move.

Re: So what's the fire when manipulating other PCs?
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2011, 04:38:11 PM »
See Glendower and Vincent's answers from this thread:

http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=530.0

I think that covers it.

Re: So what's the fire when manipulating other PCs?
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 02:09:09 AM »
Oh! Yes!  All that helps immensely.  I have no problem being creative about the fire part, but I much prefer the part where the manipulating PC comes up with the fire part.  That thread also VERY nicely clears up certain things like being under fire from unusual circumstances and how that affects stuff.  Thanks for all your prompt responses!

Re: So what's the fire when manipulating other PCs?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2011, 12:07:19 PM »
Your Hx resets to -1 with them.