Questions after the first session...

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Bret

  • 285
Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2010, 11:27:41 AM »
This helped me immensely. I've been breaking the MC rules. I have a bunch of NPCs that are threats, but since they were in the Home Front and were not obviously any other type of threat I've been handwaving them. That was WRONG. If they're not a grotesque, they are the cast or leader of some sort of larger group. Suddenly the world is full of more NPCs, and groups and factions.

I am slapping my forehead.
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Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2010, 11:45:48 AM »
I'm working on my second session too.  Just wanted to say this thread is helpful.  :)


While I'm here, is there a handy-dandy Front Sheet I can print out anywhere?

Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2010, 11:47:28 AM »
I'm still not sure I'm doing fronts and threats "right."  I'm going to end up with 4 fronts going into the second session (though obviously I'll focus on whichever 1 or 2 seem most relevant and interesting to the players and not try to use them all right now) and i'm not highly confident i put them together like i was "supposed to."  But oh well!  I'll see what happens.

There's a front sheet with the other downloads on the main page now.  I've been using it, but I have to say, i don't think I like it.  I can't write small enough to fit in everything I want comfortably.  In the future I'll probably just do my fronts and threats in a notebook.

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Bret

  • 285
Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2010, 11:47:37 AM »
http://www.apocalypse-world.com/frontsheet.pdf right off the main page. Vx put it up there a day or two ago I think.
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Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2010, 11:50:11 AM »
http://www.apocalypse-world.com/frontsheet.pdf right off the main page. Vx put it up there a day or two ago I think.


So he did!  Thanks!  :D

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Chris

  • 342
Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2010, 01:36:49 PM »
This helped me immensely. I've been breaking the MC rules. I have a bunch of NPCs that are threats, but since they were in the Home Front and were not obviously any other type of threat I've been handwaving them. That was WRONG. If they're not a grotesque, they are the cast or leader of some sort of larger group. Suddenly the world is full of more NPCs, and groups and factions.

I am slapping my forehead.

Yeah, even the NPCs in the Home Front are threats. Maybe their "Threat" is a family that doesn't mean you any harm, but they're still a threat, as the family could suddenly develop agency or something.

Like I said, this clicked for me when even a "good" NPC had to be put somewhere and in her case, she was part of an extended family. When the PCs cross the family, it'll be awesome to see how she reacts.
A player of mine playing a gunlugger - "So now that I took infinite knives, I'm setting up a knife store." Me - "....what?" Him - "Yeah, I figure with no overhead, I'm gonna make a pretty nice profit." Me - "......"

Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2010, 01:40:40 PM »
In my case, as I think I talked about earlier in the thread, I was struggling because I wanted to write up the holding's NPC medic as a threat but I didn't see her as being any of the grotesque types.  I eventually figured "Well, it's a decent-sized holding, she can't be handling all the medical issues by herself."  So now she's a part of a "family" with a few other people that help her out in the infirmary.

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Bret

  • 285
Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2010, 01:41:49 PM »
I was in fnord's boat here. I would have an individual NPC and be like, "Well... they're not a grotesque and they don't have a gang or belong to one," and rather than giving them a gang to boss around or belong to I handwaved it.
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Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2010, 01:45:13 PM »
Now that I'm operating on the idea of "If you're living all by yourself, willingly or unwillingly, you're a grotesque of some sort," it's interesting to note that at least one of the PCs in my game, and possibly all three would be grotesques if they were NPCs.  I mean, they work with other people but (and this seems typical of most of the friends i game with) they've all created characters with no family, lovers, or close friends to speak of.

Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2010, 02:18:03 PM »
If they're not a grotesque, they are the cast or leader of some sort of larger group.

As far as I'm concerned, the creepy naked medic guy is a grotesque.
"I don't care what Wilson says." -- some slanderous bastard on the internet

Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2010, 02:24:56 PM »
To follow up on my own previous post: this behavior of my friends annoys me.  Not, you know, enough to make a big deal out of it, usually, but it does.  During the "introduction" phase of character creation for AW, in the part where the MC is supposed to ask them questions, I asked every single one of them: "Do you have any family here?  Any friends?  Lovers?"  And pretty much got, "No. No. No." from all three of them.

Since I have this habit of engaging in armchair psychoanalysis (of myself and my friends both) from time to time, I've often wondered why they do this.  I'm not sure if it's some kind of impulse to "protect" one's character ("Friends and lovers are just ways the GM can fuck with me!  Better to be a loner and an orphan!") but it always makes me sigh a little inside because I feel like it makes my job so much harder.  I'm always like "Okay guys, so there is absolutely nothing holding your characters here.  I have no way to tie you into any events or conflicts in the game unless I threaten you directly (in which case you could choose to just bail), so I've basically just got to hope that you think shit is cool enough to get involved in.  Thanks."

Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2010, 02:34:40 PM »
During the "introduction" phase of character creation for AW, in the part where the MC is supposed to ask them questions, I asked every single one of them: "Do you have any family here?  Any friends?  Lovers?"  And pretty much got, "No. No. No." from all three of them.

Just a thought:

Maybe try asking them questions that can't be answered with a yes or no.

"Are you still fucking that pig from Kreider's hold? Yeah? Why not?"

"Why doesn't your brother talk to you anymore?"

"When's the last time you paid a visit to your buddy Jasper? Isn't he the one that hooks you up with your herb?"

That kind of thing.

Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2010, 02:48:38 PM »
Wow, really good (but should have been obvious, I guess) call, Michael.

Feel free to hit us with those bad boys. One of the things I'm enjoying and looking forward to about AW is getting pushed out of my usual RPG comfort zones.

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lumpley

  • 1293
Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2010, 02:52:51 PM »
So, yeah, you can't make your friends create characters who care. I think that's probably okay, I think you can play the game anyway. Your job is to create the world, make it interesting and unstable, and then play to see what happens -- not to threaten the PCs or hit them where they care or anything like that.

Maybe what happens is, the PCs don't get involved with anything much, they sit around and hunker down, and they rebuff any NPCs who come near. Okay! You're playing to see what happens, and this is what's happening. I don't think you have any duties beyond that. It won't be fun for long, but that's not your responsibility. "Hey, so, if you aren't going to do anything, this is all it is. Want to step up, or should we call it a game?"

That's my take. If they don't want to play the game, you can't make them.

If they do want to play the game, but they want to play dangerous loners, that's cool, that's their call. Remember to make PC-NPC-PC triangles with named, human NPCs, and the rest too. Then whatever happens, you've done your job.

-Vincent

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Bret

  • 285
Re: Questions after the first session...
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2010, 04:36:33 PM »
Yeah in Longneck the only one who gave me a character like that was Ozair with Lemma the mini-me. Proust has his crew but that's different. Sorrow's cult is there to give him blowjobs pretty much. But you know how you can threaten things they care about? Use the fundamental scarcities in Fronts and threaten their FOOD and WATER. Bet they care about those.

But don't coerce them into making NPCs they care about. Vincent said good stuff, and it's Apocalypse World man. The only reason you haven't eaten your mother is because you haven't run out of canned peas yet.

As far as I'm concerned, the creepy naked medic guy is a grotesque.

He's obviously a warlord. Who wouldn't flock to do the bidding of a nude, inappropriately affectionate medic?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 04:40:40 PM by Bret »
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