Is Fighting supposed to be Seize By Force?

However, experience has led me to feel strongly that seizing metaphorical stuff or "someone's life" is often bullshit, as is having the "do what you want" of Go Aggro be "die." I feel like, when players declare those kinds of aims, they are often searching for a simple "kill a dude / inflict harm" move that just doesn't exist in Apocalypse World, at least in my mind (outside some playbook moves, maybe).

There is a "inflict harm" move. For the MC. Last session, I had a battlebabe sneaks behind someone, take careful aim with her scoped rifle, and press the trigger. The player's looking at me like so, what do I roll? And it's clearly a moment for me to make a move ("everybody's looking at you to say something"). So I say "okay, your rifle does 4-harm, his head a-splode, there's brain and bone bits and shit all over the place". I did the "inflict harm (as established)" move.

I mean, it's not like the book says "only make a move against the PCs". Sometimes I make moves on NPCs too.

I mean, it's not like the book says "only make a move against the PCs". Sometimes I make moves on NPCs too.

I think you nailed it.  That's a perfectly good, obvious in hindsight, and completely rule based answer to the question.

I think that solves a *world* of perceived issues.

Okay, so we have always used Sieze by force for firefights, but I suppose...

When two guys are shooting at each other with shotguns, that's not a move. They just take 3-harm both.

If the players want do to anything else than that, it's probably a move, that modifies this outcome. (Acting under fire to, for instance get out of the way and avoid harm altogether, sieze by force to sieze something, which might modify harm, go aggro to modify the other part's behaviour)


Anecdote:

We had a situation when the battlebabe started going aggro in the middle of a fight, and I was like, "Dude, you can't do that, roll sieze by force instead". Of course, instead of going aggro, he could just, you know, shoot them. Which would correspond to getting a 10+ on Going aggro, and them forcing his hand. So we didn't actually need to bitch about whether he could use his best move or not.


Have I gotten it right?

Or, are two guys shooting at each other always Acting under fire, if no other move applies?

I think you nailed it.  That's a perfectly good, obvious in hindsight, and completely rule based answer to the question.

Thanks ^^. But honestly it's all Vincent's. The game is pretty well thought out and written. When I got my book and came here for the first time, the first post I catched was Vincent telling someone to play the game by the book to fully appreciate it, and so I do. It's actually refreshing to be able to do that with a RPG rulebook. I think with AW it's the first time ever I can do that and it works.

Really, it's all in the MC chapter :

"(always say) what honesty demands"
"look through crosshairs"
"respond with fuckery and intermitent rewards"
"do your moves but misdirect"

In the case I refered to with the Battlebabe it's honest to say that the PC has a definitive drop on the NPC (a 10+ when sneaking behind him, a scoped rifle), I'm looking at the NPC through crosshairs, I fucked with the battlebabe a lot and feel she deserves a break and to feel bad-ass, and I misdirects the whole thing by a) inlficting that move on a NPC and b) putting my bloody fingerprints all over it by adding gruesome details like the bone bits and shit.

There are precedents for MC's moves, especially the "inflict harm (as established)" move, to be done against NPCs. It's right there in the example in fact:

•Inflict harm (as established)

"Oh jesus, Wilson, they've got a sharpshooter above you. You find out about it when Mamo grunts and sits down hard, and doesn't move again. What do you do?"

The MC's making the move on a NPC, but instead of saying "okay, Mamo gets 4-harm from a sharpshooter and dies" he misdirects and puts his bloody fingerprints on.

To do it, do it. If what the PC does is neither Going Aggro nor Seize by force to the MC then the player doesn't make a move; and if everybody stop talking and look at the MC waiting for her to say something, then it's her time to make a move. Sometimes she has all the reasons in the world to just inflict harm to the NPC.

Hooray! Yes.

Vincent says I'm right! Yay! Maybe he'll answer my mail!

(nudge nudge, wink wink ;) )

Maybe!