number of stats

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number of stats
« on: March 02, 2011, 11:45:21 PM »
Quick question: AW-as-written has 5 stats, but would it be game-breaking to increase the number? Given the 0 as default I don't see how.

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lumpley

  • 1293
Re: number of stats
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2011, 04:21:22 PM »
I don't see how it would either.

I've had a hard, hard time trying to reduce the stats to four, and I've pretty much given up on it. But increasing them to six or more should be fine.

Here's a thread you might find interesting: how the stats balance. Come to think of it I'm going to go make it a sticky.

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Ariel

  • 330
Re: number of stats
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2011, 08:25:43 PM »
I tried it too and gave up on it.

Either Hard and Cool collapse into each other, or Sharp and Weird, or you do without Hot, Sharp or Weird.

Re: number of stats
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2011, 09:05:23 PM »
You guys say four stats like it's a good thing. This game should have seven!

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lumpley

  • 1293
Re: number of stats
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2011, 09:36:00 PM »
I wanted four stats for a hack I'm working on, is all.

Re: number of stats
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2011, 10:26:30 PM »
It should probably have seven stats, too.

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Ariel

  • 330
Re: number of stats
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2011, 11:18:13 PM »
But man, the fourfold beckons you!

Seven is too many. I can't even count to seven.

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lumpley

  • 1293
Re: number of stats
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2011, 11:19:54 PM »
I may be biased, but I'm pretty sure that five is perfect.

Re: number of stats
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2011, 06:05:19 AM »
@Nathan: One more reason seven is the best number.

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Orion

  • 69
Re: number of stats
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2011, 03:36:41 PM »
There are a number of ways of dropping to four stats, in my experience.  Remember that if you're going to make something a stat, you're asserting that that quality is going to have a very specific place in your game.

--It has to govern something important and commonplace enough that it's worth the space of your sheet and having a low number is a real handicap.

--It has to govern something limited and specific enough that other stats still get used and you can't get by on it alone. 

--It has to govern something that it is okay for characters to be very good or very bad at.

So let's look at the Apocalypse World stats. 

Cool is an interesting stat because it doesn't represent a specific field of endeavor, but is kind of a catchall for things which aren't explicitly covered by another stat. As such, there are a couple of ways you could get rid of it.

--Act Under Fire is always 50/50.  Basically, everyone has Cool 0. 
--Everything is governed by a stat.  When you Act Under Fire, the MC determines the category the fire comes from and you roll that.  Suppose that your stats were something like "Assassin, Spy, Saboteur, Cultist."  If you were acting under literal fire to make your escape, you would roll Assassin.  If you were acting under fire to resist manipulation, you would roll Spy.  If you were acting under fire to repair your plane's engine before it crashed, you would roll Saboteur. 

Weird can only exist as a stat if the magic level stays very near what Apocalypse world has.  Either more or less magic means no Weird.

--In a "mundane" setting, you could simply strip out Weird and run on Cool/Hard/Sharp/Weird. 
--In a more magical setting, Weird gets split up.  You could run a Potter game where the stats were Charms, Potions, Dark Arts, and Courage

Hot assumes that the same characters are good in all social situations.

--If socializing is very important to your game, you could make every stat social.  Roll with, say, "Street, Suit, Uniform, Fashion."  Each stat makes you good at talking to people who dress that way *and* doing things you'd expect people dressed that way to do.  So to build a computer, you roll Suit and to shoot a dude in the face, you roll Uniform. 
--If it's not important, you could do the same thing.  (Every NPC is either cool, hard, sharp, or weird.  Roll the appropriate stat to manipulate them).  Or, just let Cool absorb Hot's functions entirely. 

SharpGives some--and only some--characters the right to ask questions. 

--If you don't like the questions mechanic, just axe the stat.
--If you want everyone in on the action, let each stat provide information about related topics.

Finally, Hard assumes that some characters can be bad at fighting, and how you fight doesn't matter.  If you were designing a game about soldiers or ninjas or martial arts masters or something, you wouldn't want "hard."  You'd want each stat to be associated with a fighting style.

For a fantasy adventure game your stats are Bushido, Ninjutsu, Maho, and Ki.  Each one can be used to seize things by force, but they provide different side benefits. 

Re: number of stats
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 08:30:55 AM »
I think its possible, and that's how I do:

- Cool measures 'act under fire', which could be translated as 'defy the odds'.
- Hard is Aggro and Force, which is basically everything governed by violence or actions of the body
- Hot is persuasion. Sharp is expertise, perception and investigative skills.
- Weird is 'magic'. Open mind.

With all that, everything could be grouped in:

- Hard/Body, governing Go Agrro and seize by force
- Sharp/Mind, governing Seduce/Manipulate, Read Person and Stich
- Weird/Soul, governing Act under Fire (which is defy destiny or just 'be lucky') and Open Mind.

simple like that.

You want to go through a bar fight and hit that joker who stole your drink? Act under fire - evade those pesky 'fists in your face from random people' action - plus Going Aggro. This would be Soul + Body.

Specific moves that gives +1 Weird or Hot would give +1 to specific actions, like the skinner would have +1Hot, which would translate as +1 to Seduce/Manipulate when using Sharp/Mind.

I find this way a lot more balanced and easy to visualize.