Skinner and Hardholder having sex

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Skinner and Hardholder having sex
« on: January 14, 2011, 05:35:38 PM »
Good apocalypse to all.
I'm sorry if this question already got an answer, but If it had... I cannot found it.

So... Shade the Skinner and Vega the Hardholder like each other and, as is customary to Apocalypse World, they express phisically their love.
Special Moves Time!
Shade is a Skinner, so he pimps himself and Vega owe him gifts for 1-barter.
Vega is an Hardholder so he can gift his partner with 1-barter.

Do the two special moves cancel each other (the barter Shade get is the same Vega is getting for free from his Special Move) or do they add together, so now Shade is 2-barter richer than before?
Or are they both feasible solutions, to be chosen case by case?

What do you think?
Ciao, I'm Ezio, from Italy.
I'm sorry for my bad english... I'll keep studying ;-)

Re: Skinner and Hardholder having sex
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2011, 06:34:20 PM »
Hardholder Special: "you can give the other character gifts worth 1-barter, at no cost for you".

Skinner Special option: "They must give you a gift worth at least 1-barter."

I'd treat them as two different moves, thus adding one to the other. Vega must give Shade a gift worth at least 1-barter from his/her reserve, PLUS, if (s)he wants, (s)he can give Shade other gifts worth 1-barter, at no cost for her/him.

I would probably handle the situation this way.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 06:40:42 PM by Matteo Turini »

Re: Skinner and Hardholder having sex
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2011, 08:39:02 PM »
The Hardholder has to give the Skinner gifts worth 1-barter. The move doesn't say where those gifts have to come from, of course.

The Hardholder CAN give the Skinner 1-barter in gifts for free. So if he does, that satisfies the requirement to give the Skinner a gift. OR, he can give the Skinner 1-barter in gifts and pay for it.

Or he can refuse, I guess. How do you force a PC to give you gifts worth 1-barter? The Hardholder could always tell the Skinner to pick another result... but he'll probably wind up taking -1forward...

Re: Skinner and Hardholder having sex
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2011, 05:07:00 AM »
@Matteo: the double "he" isn't a mistake. Yaoi! :-P

@Johnstone:
The Hardholder could always tell the Skinner to pick another result... but he'll probably wind up taking -1forward...

Don't think about this.
Let's say that Shade WANT the jingle. It's his right to pretend that barter. If he knew that his partner is broke his player will not choose that option. Maybe his lover is so ashamed of his poverty, of his incapacity to offer good things to his splendid Shade that he take that -1forward.
But if the lover can pay I say: let him pay! PC or NCP! This is the full power of the Skinner move.
Never meet a woman for wich you will spend too much? ;-)

So we are now 1 to 1!
Matteo: "The two moves sums"
Johnstone: "The two moves are complementary"

Other opinions?
Ciao, I'm Ezio, from Italy.
I'm sorry for my bad english... I'll keep studying ;-)

Re: Skinner and Hardholder having sex
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2011, 07:01:52 AM »
@Matteo: the double "he" isn't a mistake. Yaoi! :-P
I knew it! Well, in our game we have a double she (Vega, the hardholder - that name's cool! - and Impala, the driver).

Anyway, reading it, Johnstone's suggestion makes sense to me, except maybe for the fact that, if the skinner WANTS 1-barter, the hardholder MUST give him the gift, willingly or not.

I'm not sure if the wording of the hardholder's special could cancel the skinner's special option, though. It says he CAN give a gift for free, not that he can CHOOSE to give it or not thus making the skinner's special not working for that option.
I think the former's the right interpretation.

Re: Skinner and Hardholder having sex
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2011, 03:13:17 PM »
Yo,

It's not stated in the Skinner move where the barter has to come from so yeah, the Hardholder can just give away the "free" one if he wants.

That's the way I would rule it anyway.