Druids and Dice

Hey, everyone,

When a druid uses the shapeshifting move, they roll for the number of holds they get.  The GM gives them moves associated with that animal, and they spend a hold to do them.  Is the move an automatic success?  No dice rolling?

My 15 year-old son and druid player is stressed! Help! :) 

Thanks,

Chris

It depends on the move.

For example, the druid transforms into a Leopard, I might give him a "Pounce" move patterned on Hack and Slash (when you leap on an unsuspecting target, roll +dex) then, just like Hack and Slash, there'd be an outcome roll.

Or if the druid transforms into a kitten, I might give him an "Aaaawwwwww, kitty" move patterned on the Thief's "Wealth and Taste", say "When you roll about and purr adorably, choose someone present. They'll come over and give you a cuddle" (this is possibly the least heroic move I've ever conceived). "Wealth and Taste" doesn't need a roll, so neither does that.

Note you should ask the druid the intent of the transformation in order to determine an appropriate move.

Actually, they are just like gm moves, so no dice are involved. You spend hold and the move happens, period. You already rolled the dice in the first place just to perform the shapeshift, so there's no need to roll again.

Actually, they are just like gm moves, so no dice are involved. You spend hold and the move happens, period. You already rolled the dice in the first place just to perform the shapeshift, so there's no need to roll again.

This is my understanding as well.  Because Hold is a specific resource, it's expenditure is the "opportunity cost" of the Move in question, so therefore, having another roll on top of that -- which could fail, and thus negate the whole point of spending Hold, which is a valuable and limited resource -- seems like it would penalize the mentality of using such a Move.

My understanding also comes from how Heritage Moves in Dark Heart of the Dreamer work.  In lieu of a standard race-based move from your Class, you can instead pick 2-3 "Heritage Moves."  At the beginning of a session, roll +something or other, and you get 1, 2, or 3 Hold based on the roll.  You can then spend the Hold to make a Move, and the Moves listed come straight from various Monster Moves -- which are automatic -- or something of that sort.  Point being, you only have maybe 1, 2 or 3 Hold for an entire session to spend on these Moves, so you shouldn't be penalized by spending the Hold and then having the Move fail.

You already rolled the dice in the first place just to perform the shapeshift, so there's no need to roll again.

Right.  So, at worst, the druid gets one hold.  Can they then use that hold, shapeshift again, and instantly gain more holds?  

Could someone think of a situation "in the fiction" where this could not happen?  It just doesn't seem like there's any way to throw hard moves at the druid (directly, anyway).  

Am I making sense?

Thanks again for the help.

If they get a miss on the shapeshift roll, then you get to make a hard move.

also, you should ask your druid how often he can shapeshift. Some druids need a break, some ones are always shapeshifted...

Right.  So, at worst, the druid gets one hold.  Can they then use that hold, shapeshift again, and instantly gain more holds?  

Could someone think of a situation "in the fiction" where this could not happen?

Druid: I use my pounce to knock down the Orc. 
GM: cool, so you land on top the Orc pinning him to the ground. You feel you body start to shift as the other Orc launches an arrow at you. What do you do?
Druid: I transform into a swallow!
GM: You could try but there's an arrow speeding towards you. Do you think you can maintain the transformation while being feathered?

Thanks, all.  I reread the rules for the move, and it does say for a miss "to take one hold, and whatever the GM tells you".  I now understand that last part as a cue for a hard move.

Thanks for the great help!

ANY miss is a cue for you to make a hard move. The "show the downside" and "use up resources" moves are particularly good for shape-shifting.

Yeah, the Druid spends a Hold to just do the move: he grabs something with his jaws, pounces and pins, whatever. But remember, you're always pushing dangerous situations at him anyway. Being able to spend a Hold and avoid the dice is cool, but hardly makes the Druid invulnerable: "Cool, you've got him held in your alligator jaws. He's struggling and screaming for help, trying to wriggle free... oh man, he's got a knife!"

You get to make a move when the dice show 6-, but also when the players look to you for what's happening next, yeah? You can absolutely push threats at him.

The fix for any Dungeon World GM conundrum is usually "Make moves!"

For the miss, a fun thing to do is think of the ways the given animal would not be useful in the situation, and give them a move based on that. Like, someone wants to transform into a mouse to scurry past orcs to the treasure, and on a miss you just give them the moves "hide deep in a hole" and "squeak helplessly". If you really want to be harsh you can say: the ordinary rule about giving up unspent hold to transform back? That doesn't apply this time. They'll have to use one of those moves.

You can always ask the players: what happens when the druids botches with shapeshifting?