Last Breath

That may be so Nathan, and I see your point of view, (and I've been playing DW since Tony first came up with his idea in Apoc D&D) but Sage and Adam are trying to prodce a published game, that already 'mimics' (for want of a better term) large parts of the AW text - Guide to moves, playbooks, guide to advanced moves (mistake and correction), The GM Agenda, principles and Moves, Fronts and Dangers, Sage's latest suggestion in this thread for injuries (straight from AW disabilities) etc..

So why not a section on 'Advanced Delving'? The concept of Love letters is a brilliant way for the GM to tie the characters in to the fiction with a custom move between sessions, and so, so worthy of inclusion into the ruleset.  In fact a whole section on writing custom moves is already included! Why not include love letters?  Ensuring that there are examples specific to DW and the ways you can use these tools in a fantasical, heroic setting (instead of a post-apocalyptic one) I would have thought is vital.

Many folks will pick up Dungeon World having never played AW, they just want to try the cool indie dungeon delving game they have heard about. The rules they buy later this year may be the only *World game they have read. I support and encourage Sage and Adam to have their own game, not just a supplement to AW that you need to 'port' the rules you need from the 'advanced fuckery section'.

Man, if I had my way with the world, you'd have to buy all three at once. ;)

I take you point well and it's well argued. Really, you're right that no one should have to piece together a game from another game. Having a section on "Advanced Delving" is absolutely necessary.

I suppose that what I was trying to get is that I'm not convinced that Love-Letters, in particular, fit into what Sage and Adam are doing. They fit in wonderfully with my game but I'm not really running DW on the rails. I've rewritten all the playbooks more or less, add two new ones in and have changed a few really core things about how some of the basic mechanics work. All this because none of my players are all that interested in OLD SCHOOL or NUSKOOL D&D of any edition really. I have one grognard at my table and mostly, he's interested in metatextually exploring in a sincere way what it means to be "LAWFUL GOOD" in a world where Good and Evil are metaphysically real - a notion that all of us find abhorrent in the real world. Oh, if that wasn't enough, I take to heart some of the things that Vincent and Joe put in their games, that if you're running a game about Dungeoneering, have no place being there.

I guess my point is that the Town Moves are the Love-Letters. Love-Letters are suppose to make up for fictional a down time that doesn't really exist in the structure of D&D because the players don't have gigs and they aren't integrated into the community. It's Town for shopping and healing and getting new missions and the rest is Dungeons. Defeat the Monsters in fantastical Locations, get the Treasure and save the Princess. While it's more complex than that, I don't know where I'd put the Love-Letters in or what function they'd serve that's intrinsic to DW.

Oh of course! Town moves *forehead slap*. I've never stopped using the town moves (I think they are awesome - especially the adventure hooks move) and was too blind to see they are an exact 'iteration' of  Love Letters. Sorry Nathan!

Oh and I have backed / bought AW, MH and will most certainly support DW as a high level backer :)

Your game sounds a lot like mine, though the last two sessions I have been beta testing the rules as current to provide some feedback without 'tinkering', and the old hands at DW have been a mite disgruntled at not having access to the town moves (other than carousing and outstanding warrants). Defy Danger in its broadest interpretation has been my go-to friend.

Love Letters is a disconnected name for DW at any rate. Maybe 'Tales from the Inn' or some such is much more fitting as a custom move, with example moves of these 'Tales' (in the advanced delving section of course) being versions of Tony's original Town Moves? As players reach higher levels I've been copying gigs and gangs and strongholds from AW as 'Prestige Moves', I even wrote a thread about it here somewhere. Currently the thief has a few gigs after ousting the Guildmaster of Dingledale, and Tonks (the Wizard) has built his very own (but rather slipshod) Wizard's Tower, complete with thorny briars, a simpleton assistant and magical apparatus!

Anyways, thanks for discussing all this, and I'd love to play a session with you guys some time to learn how other folks play (I'm a lone GM in the wilds of country Australia) if I can cross the pond in the near future!

Well if you're ever in Montreal, just let me know.

Yeah, the current rules don't support high level play that well but I expect that'll come later.

How high have you played, Nathan? I'm really curious to try that myself. I have a lot of experience of various iterations of the game at levels 1-5, but none beyond. Are there specific problems?

Do you mean me (my name is Nathan too!) Or Nathan O.W.?

Anyways, my camping buddies have been playing on and off for a year and are up to levels 6 and 8. They have some 'prestige moves' hacked from AW, but otherwise they are pretty Vanilla. Brancino always wanted to be an assassin since day one, and I'm thinking of making a 'compendium' advance to cater to this (though his actions would classify him as one anyway, despite his celebrity in Dingledale).

Otherwise we are having no issues and feel rather well supported by the ruleset. The players are having a blast (this is the ONLY rpg  they have played), and ritually pull up around the campfire each night when we are away to once again tell stories about Tonks and Brancino. The moves develop easily from the fiction and the tales we spin are suitably Heroic. I LOVE  DW.

I was meaning Nathan O. W., but the question is open to all comers!

I don't see any reason why the moves wouldn't work at high levels, but there are often unforeseen interactions with these things.

We have an advanced delving chapter (we call it Hacking)! It was in versions of the full game a year ago, got cut from the Red Book, and hasn't been updated since, but it's coming back. I think it's actually better than the AW section on the same, since we've had more time to hack. It also covers stuff like changing the Agenda and Principles to make an entirely different game.

That sounds cool. I'm excited to read it!

Hey Sage, are they the rules that came out in Landscape format (prior to the adventurer's guild)? still have those rules and reference them all the time. I agree that in some ways they are more user friendly than Vx's version and have more DW specific examples! :)

I can't wait for the new, updated version! Thanks so much for being so thorough with all of your revisions and not rushing the 'final' product. Its going to be brilliant.