[Rules Question] Seduce for Sex

I was totally gonna post on the old topic, here, but the thing was all yelling at me and saying the topic was 120 days old, and I'm weak-willed, so I'm starting a new one.

Simple question.

We know that you can manipulate to have sex. The goal is to have the other person sleep with you, the leverage is whatever that may be. "Sleep with me, or I'll burn down your house."

We know that you can seduce to get something other than sex. The goal is something open, the leverage is sex. "Burn down Bumper's house, and I'll sleep with you."

Can you seduce someone to get sex, specifically, with that being the explicit goal? The goal is "you have sex with me," the leverage is "you have sex with me"? "Hey, I'm really hot, do you want to have sex?"

We understand that if you seduce someone, you are getting sex anyway. That's the nature of seduction. The question is if you can seduce someone to get sex, period, only, that's it. Specifically with reference to trying to get people who might not naturally be inclined to have sex with you, to have sex with you, without employing additional leverage.

We understand that if you seduce someone, you are getting sex anyway. That's the nature of seduction. The question is if you can seduce someone to get sex, period, only, that's it. Specifically with reference to trying to get people who might not naturally be inclined to have sex with you, to have sex with you, without employing additional leverage.

Obviously different "in story" events may change this, but I believe, in general, that you can't use Seduce this way.

Manipulation is: do something for me, and you get a reward (i.e., something you want); if someone doesn't want that reward, the manipulation isn't going to work.  With Seduce, that reward is "sex with me"...

Does, "have sex with me, the reward is having sex with me" make sense in that context?  If the person wasn't inclined to have sex with you, then the reward isn't valid, so it doesn't work... you've got to use Manipulation and give some non-sex reward.

And if the person *does* want to have sex with you, no overt move is required at all!

Yes, you can use seduce this way. Of course you can!

If the object of your desire is even a little bit interested in you, or curious about you - and you're a hot badass of Apocalypse World, who wouldn't be? - then you can use sex as leverage. And if other circumstances - responsibilities, commitments, shyness, duty, prejudice, fear, expectations, barriers of inconvenience - would normally stop the object of your desire from approaching you, then you can use that leverage to get him or her to ignore them.

My opinion is that the world is made up almost entirely of people who are a little bit interested in each other, but normal, reasonable, appropriate barriers (and some unreasonable, inappropriate ones) keep them from approaching each other. When you seduce someone, you offer them what they want - sex with you - and they have to decide whether to cross those barriers to get it. That's exactly the way the move works.

If you don't have to make the move to get somebody to have sex with you, that just means that those barriers don't exist. You're both single, into each other, from the same side of the tracks, and the lights are low...

Brilliant. Thanks very much, that answers my question!

If you wouldn't mind discussing it a bit further, though, I'd much appreciate it.

Could you explain the meaning of: "Seducing someone, here, means using sex to get them to do what you want, not (or not just) trying to get them to fuck you." It's on page 197 of the book, in the in-depth explanation of the seduce move.

It's one of the major origins for my confusion, I think.

Thanks again, though!

"Seducing someone can mean trying to get them to fuck you, yes, but it doesn't only mean that. It can also mean promising them sex to try to get them to do, oh, anything you want them to do."

Awesome, thanks! That clears this up for me.

I have found that when I push and ask more probing questions, there are often more interesting (to me) motivations behind the dice hitting the table.

From last week's game:

A: I want to seduce her. *picks up dice*

Me: Why do you want to seduce her really?  Is this about leaving Rum in her joint while he kicks his drug habit?

A: Yeah, I'm kinda buttering her up for that.

Me: Roll.

*fails roll miserably*

Me: She sleeps with you.  She likes ya.  But in the morning she kisses your forehead and says, "Get that fucking junky out of my joint when you leave.  Okay, hon?  This is a place of business, not a hospital for wayward scumbags."

Now, thing is, Anthony wanted his character to sleep with Bar but he also wanted to roll Hot, one of his highlighted stats.  So, if he just wanted to sleep with her and there was no more interesting reason behind it, I wouldn't want to just *say yes* rather than roll the dice.

I dunno.  Things do get interesting if Bar is pissed at him (and she had plenty of reason to be) and won't let him in her bed.  If I sense a more interesting reason at work, though, I am going to try to coax it out of them.