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Messages - Simon C

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46
blood & guts / Re: Seduce
« on: January 26, 2011, 08:06:18 PM »
It would be a guessing game if you couldn't directly ask "How can I get you to..." on a 7-9 on Read a Person.

What principles do you use to decide what the NPC asks for?

47
blood & guts / Re: Seduce
« on: January 26, 2011, 07:52:41 PM »
Fair call, Chris.

In my first few sessions of AW, I think this happened a lot, when the players and I were both getting our heads around the move. We'd go to out-of-character "My leverage is X" "Well, I don't think they really want X, so it's not a move".

I can remember a few times where I outright said "I'm being a dick. You're offering something she might want, let's see if it's enough" and roll the dice. I also remember a few times where I said "Manipulate is not mind control. You can't just make people do what you want".

Now we're all much more on the same page about what people might want or not want, and what counts as leverage, and it flows more smoothly, I think.

48
blood & guts / Re: Seduce
« on: January 26, 2011, 07:38:16 PM »
Chris, you're making a lot of sense. But I think the bit that says "Before you even get to rolling, you need some leverage" is pretty important. Implicit or explicit, we have to know what your leverage is before you roll the dice. You can't roll up to Balls, ask him to kill Dremmer, and then wait for him to tell you what it will take, right?

Otherwise there's nothing stopping Balls from asking you to promise something you can't possibly give, and then the move is useless.

You start from a position of "here's what I'm willing to give" and the MC starts with "That might be worth enough", and then the move sorts out the specifics, i.e can you make that attractive enough to them that they'll do what you want for it?

49
blood & guts / Re: Seduce
« on: January 26, 2011, 07:04:01 PM »
Oh hey you're right, I was forgetting that bit of the move.

Let me think about it more.

50
blood & guts / Re: Seduce
« on: January 26, 2011, 06:19:39 PM »
Chris, I'm pretty sure the book is clear on this.

You need leverage for it to be a move. Otherwise you can be like "Balls, how about you kill Dremmer for me, just because I asked nicely?" and on a 10+, Balls goes off to kill Dremmer, just because you asked him to.

What "Seduce or manipulate" decides is not if the NPC wants what you're offering (the MC decides that), but how much they want it. Specifically, it decides if they want it enough (or if you can make them want it enough) to do what you're asking them in return. On a hit, yep, they want it enough. On a 7-9, they want it, but they want to be sure they're going to get it. On a miss, I guess they don't want it bad enough.

I am open to the idea that the move, as it appears in the summary, could be worded better.

51
blood & guts / Re: Seduce
« on: January 26, 2011, 04:32:26 PM »
It's cool that we both answered with exactly the same interpretation, citing the same sources in the principles.

52
blood & guts / Re: Seduce
« on: January 26, 2011, 04:27:26 PM »
Well, that's not how I play it.

You say "I sidle up to Balls, stroke my finger up and down his arm and say "y'know, I'd be real grateful if Dremmer were to run into an accident out in the waste somewhere. Real grateful."

Then I, as MC, decide if this counts as leverage on Balls. Does Balls want to fuck your character? Probably he does, unless there's a real good reason to think he doesn't. I'm making Apocalypse World feel real, but also I'm not preserving the dignity of my NPCs.

If it's leverage, we roll the dice for Seduce. If you have to make a concrete promise, maybe I'll say "Balls looks at you and he's like "For reals this time? You've jerked me around before." And you can make a concrete promise if you like. If you don't follow through on that promise, maybe you can't use the promise of sex as leverage with Balls in the future.

If it's not leverage, it's not a move. I'll probably straight out say "That's not leverage, he doesn't want that". And then be like "Balls looks at you and snorts "I wouldn't fuck you with his dick", pointing to Roark in the corner."

Does that make sense?

53
Apocalypse World / Re: Drop-ins, Drop-outs
« on: January 25, 2011, 10:38:20 PM »
Moves can reference things in the real world, right? Like "at the start of the session" and so on. So:

When you can't make it to a session, choose one:
- You vanish, sloping off to some hideout in the waste or following up other business. You are safe.
- You stick around in the thick of it. The MC will play your character, but you are not safe.
- You are taken by the psychic maelstrom. You pass out cold, right where you stand. You are not safe.

That's a basic move. It'd be kinda cool to make custom, character-specific moves to though right? If you know you're going to be flaky, why not make it part of your character, like:

When you can't make it to a session, choose one:
- You're off doing murders and raiding in the waste. Take +1 barter when you come back, but there might be reprisals.
- Someone from your past is hunting you, so you're laying low.

54
Apocalypse World / Re: Rotating MCs and nomadic PCs
« on: January 25, 2011, 10:25:32 PM »
Chris,

That's a very insightful post, and matches my experience.

55
brainstorming & development / Ice World - A pleistocene hack
« on: January 25, 2011, 02:03:22 AM »
I had a little idea for a AW hack for playing hunter-gatherers of the pliestocene. It'd be quite an extensive piece of work, so pretty daunting, but it's an interesting idea:

You'd have a handful of basic moves, maybe some things like "Stalk something" and "run something to ground" as well as some more basic stuff. But instead of playbooks, you'd have individual moves for the objects each person owns. For example:

Rope: When you test your rope's strength, roll +hand (or something) plus your rope's craft (or something). On a hit, it holds. 10+, haul something heavy, go somewhere inaccessible, tie something down, or hold something together. 7-9, the MC can offer you a worse outcome, a tough choice, or a compromise. On a miss, the rope breaks, and the MC will make a hard move.

Spear: When you hurl your spear, roll +eye (or something) and your spear's craft (or something). On a hit, you hit and do harm. 10+, choose 3. On a 7-9, choose 2.
- Your spear is buried deep
- Do terrible harm (+1 harm)
- Do little harm (-1 harm)
- Remain hidden
- Your target is knocked down, frozen in place, or pinned

Headdress: When you dance with your headdress on, roll +spirit (or something) and your headdress's craft (or something). On a hit, the spirits are pleased. 10+ hold 3. 7-9, hold 1. Spend hold 1 for 1 to:
- give someone dancing +1 forward
- heal someone dancing one segment
- something else cool.

Yeah?



56
blood & guts / Re: Anatomy of Go Aggro
« on: January 24, 2011, 04:17:37 PM »
Also worth noting: The fictional circumstances define what you can do. It's hard to Go Aggro on someone when they're in their hideout, because they can just barricade themselves in. If they're out in the open, they probably can't (or they barricade themselves securely in someone else's house, which has its own problems). You can't offer someone a cupcake if you haven't got a cupcake with you.

57
the nerve core / Re: Borked
« on: January 19, 2011, 02:52:07 PM »
Looks fixed at my end. Cheers Vincent!

58
blood & guts / Re: Investigative moves
« on: January 19, 2011, 12:54:17 AM »
Chris,

Like maybe make each crime scene a custom move, like a mini love letter? It's midnight and my brain is dying.

That's an interesting idea!

59
the nerve core / Borked
« on: January 18, 2011, 10:40:24 PM »
Hey Vincent,

I think something is kind of borked on the forum. There are messages that are not showing up, and odd behaviour in general. For example, I'm only seeing two topics in this subforum.

I noticed someone else saying the same thing.

Cheers,

Simon

60
blood & guts / Re: Investigative moves
« on: January 18, 2011, 10:31:34 PM »
Thanks! If I didn't know what a huge amount of work it would be, I'd be thinking about a procedural hack.

The real challenge though is not coming up with moves, it's finding a way to have the game be fun, even if the investigators don't solve the mystery. Possibly a more long-running police drama like The Shield would be a better model. Or just a really bleak procedural, with more focus on the community in which the crimes take place, so your real challenge is keeping the community functioning, not just solving crimes. That would require a whole new set of moves though.

Dammit! Now I'm thinking about a hack!

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