So, what happens if you're fucking one person and they like just how too-much you are?

(really, that's the thing that gets me about sex moves, they tend to assume too much about the person who's going to be playing the book or the person/people they're going to be fucking)

On the subject of getting angels more involved, I'm playing one. The MC has done a great job so far. Her first love letter to me gave me a choice of things I was getting work from, and I ended up picking one that went places: a pernicious, communicable, and eventually fatal disease-causing mould, which went on to spawn a cult which has raised a considerable amount of shit in the game. And then there was getting attacked in my surgery and the meds used for treating the mould stolen, which resulted in a tense subplot where we got them back (and the thief turned out to be the hardholder's son, which spawned more drama), and then the MC felt bad about having me attacked in my surgery by a big scary woman with a severe communicable disease and brought a biker gang of potential romantic interests (and subplots of their own, like being able to recruit the gang against enemy mutants, and having to deal with the hardholder who wants to run them out, and so on) into town, and yada yada.

Also, angels have wicked Sharp. I highly recommend using it. Having Sharp+3 (after an improvement, admittedly) is like being a goddamn mind-reader: you excel at seeing through people (and situations), and you should damn well make sure everyone knows it. I also picked the stat array with Hot+1, which helps for following through when I read someone for their buttons.

So I guess where I'm going with this is, you need to consider both what angels as a class do (they cure the sick and heal the injured--a disease or battle that calls for a doctor to save the day will put attention on them), and their individual motives, as you would for anyone. You could try asking the angel's player what the character's goals and desires are, then act on that information. That, and cater to their great Sharp; throw situations at the PCs where NPCs around them aren't wearing their motives on their sleeves or into uncertain situations with dangers that are hidden and not right out on the table.

Just a few ideas I'll throw out there that you may wish to pass on to your gangless players:
* One of the groupless players could snag NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH, which would mean they are a gang.
* Many of the non-hardholder, non-chopper playbooks can obtain gangs of their own.
* A character with a high Hot or otherwise in possession of good ability to seduce or manipulate can try turning the gang-having characters against one another, or turning an influential NPC who can rile the community against them (if the hardholder's rule is contested, their income is cut off).

Since this thread's a little quiet I'll throw something else out there:

You listed glasses in the scholar's looks. Perhaps the scholar should have the option to take eyeglasses (worn valuable) as per the skinner luxe gear if they also choose for the scholar to need the eyeglasses to see properly (+1sharp when sight counts and the glasses are being worn, but -1sharp when sight counts and they aren't being worn)?

Sounds like you have a handle on your character Allison :) And I get your concept of a gunlugger as a 'warrior', but that's your brilliant interpretation of the playbook, are you able to bring to life via the suggestions above? Just beacuse you are an intrinsic warrior, doesn't mean that you are automatically competent with all your toys!
So what do you think about Vincent's 'technique' tag suggestion as tradeoff's to the playbook as written? Or are you happy with the way your interpretation of the gunlugger playbook stands as it is?

Belatedly... I don't think it's too bad as is, though the technique tag was a brilliant idea on his part and we may need to begin playing with it. I did trade away my FOBG plus one serious gun and the option to take AP ammo away for getting impossible reflexes added to the Muscle's class list, so I can grab that as an in-class move (none of fuck this shit, prepared for the inevitable, or battlefield instincts really cry out to me, even though some are pretty nice, so that means I can go ahead and sink my other in-class move slot into it without worry), and NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH grants me 3-harm before bloodcrazed in battle. The only other thing I'd really be in a huge hurry for is perhaps one particular technique--we could call it "sucker punch" or "bloody knuckles"--with 2-harm hand technique or 3-harm hand technique tags, so she could hit a little harder outside of a "battle." Techniques for stuff like +ap to unarmed attacks would be cool, but aren't necessary to realize the concept (she has things she can use weapons for, but she doesn't stop being a warrior without them, and the MC can still inconvenience her with equipment loss). I'm fine with Daryl getting things like +ap or +area and the like from her equipment; I don't really need something, like, say, Miracle Moon (3-harm hand area messy technique, heals 1-harm for user if it inflicts at least 1-harm as established) here.

On the other hand, Daryl's SO, Frost, the Skinner assassin with devil with a blade, is interested in these "techniques" things. He may have gushed a little at the whirlwind of total knives and death.

Hmm. I don't actually mind ten-barter words. That said, if you want to change it as per the previous poster's recommendation, I would add an additional suggestion for a replacement: I see right through you. When you seduce or manipulate another player, roll+Hx. When you seduce or manipulate an NPC, roll+sharp.

I can see not liking the roll+Hx part, in which case, I'd restrict it to manipulation only and straight-up roll+sharp like the mechanics you were using to begin with. My logic is twofold: one, other moves that allow for substitution of both seduction and manipulation use the +Hx/+stat split (see the Operator's easy to trust), while moves that allow for straight-up +stat substitution allow it for either seduction or manipulation (see: the brainer's unnatural lust fixation or the hocus's charismatic); two, it's based upon how well the user understands the target, which wouldn't only be Sharp--it could just as easily be Hx.

I would, however, add that the statlines are pretty weak. They only add up to +2, and they should be adding up to +3 (exception: a statline with two stats at +2 adds up to only +2 total; the battlebabe and driver also have their own shit going on which doesn't really apply in the scholar's case). So go back through the statlines and give them a bonus point somewhere. (For no particular reason, I'll quietly recommend one Cool+1 Hard+1 Hot-1 Sharp+2 Weird=0 statline.)

I'd also try to find something to drop among the improvements to make room for a second line of "get a new scholar move." Also, stat improvements cap at +2, not +3, unless they're the veteran +1 to any stat (max+3) that all classes get or the class gets its "improve your main stat to +3" in its improvements rather than in its moves. Neither of these apply to the scholar, so its stat improvements should cap at +2.

Johnstone's "When you reset Hx, learn a secret." http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=1883.0

It's awesome, and a good offset for Hx dropping all of a sudden because you got closer.

Regarding Merciless and Bloodcrazed stacking: I totally would allow this.  Why?

[ . . . ]

If you are merciless, you *cannot show mercy* or you lose the move (as you're no longer merciless).  If you're bloodcrazed, you can't talk down a tense situation, or choose a less violent option, or you're no longer bloodcrazed.

(This was likely a suggestion rather than a Vx ruling, but it really clicked for me).

I'll admit, we don't really enforce that at either of my MCs' tables, and I don't think they would choose to do so. If only because they've been having a ball with all the drama we've had where Daryl has reacted like a human being with a shred of sanity left rather than just being a buzzkill and offing the drama-generator. Hell, my group awarded Daryl the campaign's first Crowning Moment of Awesome for solving a problem in the (non-violent) way she did when she could have just gone offing people, particularly the local crazy dictator (not because she was feeling charitable, or because she was scared, but because a) she didn't feel like throwing the entire hold into chaos, b) she didn't care to let the asshole who'd probably end up taking the current dictator's place get the chance, and c) she sure as fuck doesn't want to run the place herself, because seriously, fuck that kind of responsibility--she has enough of it just looking after Frost, which, incidentally, was the nature of the problem she was solving).

It's not that Daryl has no taste for blood; she's eagerly thrown herself into the centre of a melee to crack some skulls the fun way more than once. It's more that there are kinds of violence which are stimulating and exciting, like ten-to-one odds against raiders and savages out for blood, and then there are kinds that she just finds kind of tasteless and unrewarding, like poor scrubs who can hardly fight back or throwing her home hold into political chaos. That's just shit she doesn't care to be bothered with.

The second is that they're not optional moves.  Given these two, I don't really think there's a balance problem, or Vincent presumably wouldn't have written them both!  (Since nearly every character in the game can have them both if they really wanted to.)

They're not optional moves? I wasn't aware of that. So far the MC of the game Daryl's in has allowed for restraining ourselves and doing less harm than we could when it makes sense that we'd be able to do so (like, just because Daryl could crack some guy's skull doesn't necessarily preclude logically being able to just smack him around enough to cow him instead).

Seriously though. Even as a player who stands to benefit from doing so, I would facepalm at Bloodcrazed and Merciless being allowed to stack (or Daredevil and Rasputin, for that matter--well, maybe, with the limitation of capping at the higher of 3-armour or actual armour equipped plus one, perhaps). It is simply not something I would push for, and I would openly tell the MC "please don't let me pull this shit at your table" (though I could see myself taking both Daredevil and Rasputin to increase the availability of that +1armour, at least).

Yes I had forgotten about Bloodcrazed, and it does what I meant. You were asking about the guillotine doing more harm by default which, with this move, it does.

I don't have the guillotine rules in front of me, but are you talking about implanted items?

OK, probably, yeah. The guillotine chokehold is a technique that was written up as an implanted item--essentially a special attack the character can perform, as opposed to a weapon they wield per se.

Either way, this is wrong:

Quote

but doesn't tell me exactly where.

In my opinion, there's no 'exactly' anything in Apocalypse World. (further words)

All right, you got me. Not exactly, then, but good guidelines. "No 'implanted technique' gear that basically duplicates the effects of an existing move" (i.e., "implanted" 2-armour) comes to mind.

That said, I'm not trying to make a guillotine chokehold do more damage (it does s-harm anyway; that's the point). The idea is that I was just using it as an example of a technique written up as "implanted equipment," and my curiosity was about other things that might be appropriate for such treatment.