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Messages - Chris

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16
Apocalypse World / Re: A couple questions about the Operator
« on: August 06, 2011, 11:10:28 AM »
And it's sometimes complicated.

Captain Mal Reynolds is an operator with the obligation gig of protecting The Doc and his sister from the Alliance. Why does he do this?

He says it's about sticking it to the Alliance. And maybe that's it. Or maybe he's the kind of guy who wouldn't turn his back on people like that and that's why.

You do it because it's an obligation.

Quote from: lin_fusan on August 05, 2011, 01:20:07 AM
The playbook itself says that unworked obligation gigs are opportunities for the MC. So the player would have no incentive until after the MC responded with fuckery.

I don't get this. There is the incentive of NOT letting the MC make little moves that lead to you get fuckery-ed.

Basically, if you work and succeed, it's all good. If you work it and fail, that sucks. It's a countdown clock all the way at midnight.

If you don't work it at all, it's a countdown clock that starts at maybe nine. The Alliance shows up and they're in town and looking for River, but they're not sure where you are.

17
Apocalypse World / Re: holdless scenarios?
« on: August 01, 2011, 09:41:52 PM »
Quote from: Pigeon on August 01, 2011, 08:06:22 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 01, 2011, 05:49:34 PM
I can't address the actual game, since I've not seen it, and I'm not trying to attack it or anything. I don't know anything about Saffron or what kinda problems she has. I can only address the post. But suggesting that people have enough to eat and are immune from sickness because a character who's nominally in charge does not have the wealth move is not sitting happy in my brain.

1) I'm straight-up not sure what your goal is in this thread if it's not to say that we're not playing the game right!

2) I'm fascinated by you cutting out the bit of my post where I said that we do deal with issues of scarcity.

3) Nobody's suggesting that everybody is fat and happy. The point being made is that making sure people get enough to eat and don't get sick isn't actually anybody's problem.  There probably are some people who are starving or diseased, but if they fall behind, they get left behind. We're a travelling rave! There are villages and places where people live, but we're not them.

:) Yeah, I don't know anything about your game. I didn't address the rest of your post because it didn't have anything to do with what I was saying. I wasn't sure what to do with it, man.

As far as nobody suggesting that everyone is fat and happy? I don't know if you and Elizabeth are in the same game, but she pretty clearly described it as "Easy Mode". I was just addressing the content of her post, where she said that if someone ran a hold without the move, no one was idle or sick or etc. Even her language of referring to it as the "scarcity roll" rather than the "wealth roll" was somewhat indicative of a particular mindset about the move.

This thread isn't particularly about a single game. It's about running a game without a hold or living in a hold without a holder. My posts address that. Just trying to help! I'm sure your game is awesome. :)

18
Apocalypse World / Re: holdless scenarios?
« on: August 01, 2011, 05:49:34 PM »
Quote from: Pigeon on August 01, 2011, 01:21:00 PM
Quote from: Chris on August 01, 2011, 08:53:08 AM
No. This is bad. The wealth roll isn't to create bad things; it's to limit the bad things to just one or two and that on a missed roll. Pseudo-holders without the wealth roll in my games? It's tooth and nail. Your people, they're hungry and diseased and savage and idle, all of these at all of the times that there are, and what do you do about it?

This seems a bit harsh.

I'm sorry it comes off like that, but that was the nice way to say it. Having a non-holder not get community problems like this:

Quote from: Elizabeth on July 31, 2011, 01:29:16 PM
So maybe it's not Little House On The Prairie because no one's sick and/or rioting and/or idle and/or whatever. It's easy mode.

...suggests is just bad. It suggests that wealth exists to create problems or punish bad rolls and I think it fulfills the exact opposite of that function.

I've heard the "moves are not competency" argument. I don't buy it. If I roll high on dice and good things happen and I roll low on dice and bad things happen, this pretty clearly touches on character skill. Is it more in the realm of effecting the "plot" directly at the narrative level. Eh. That's another discussion.

And all Apocalypse World characters are competent by default. There are other holders, but you're the Hardholder. And you're good at it.

I can't address the actual game, since I've not seen it, and I'm not trying to attack it or anything. I don't know anything about Saffron or what kinda problems she has. I can only address the post. But suggesting that people have enough to eat and are immune from sickness because a character who's nominally in charge does not have the wealth move is not sitting happy in my brain.

19
Apocalypse World / Re: holdless scenarios?
« on: August 01, 2011, 08:53:08 AM »
Quote from: Elizabeth on July 31, 2011, 01:29:16 PM
It's weird that Shreyas said that, because in our current game he's playing the de facto hardholder (A Maestro 'D who runs the traveling rave and who everyone works for), and he's basically got it way easier than any other hardholder I've seen because he doesn't have to do the scarcity roll at the beginning of every session.

So maybe it's not Little House On The Prairie because no one's sick and/or rioting and/or idle and/or whatever. It's easy mode.

No. This is bad. The wealth roll isn't to create bad things; it's to limit the bad things to just one or two and that on a missed roll. Pseudo-holders without the wealth roll in my games? It's tooth and nail. Your people, they're hungry and diseased and savage and idle, all of these at all of the times that there are, and what do you do about it?

Hardholders, you may question their methods, but they're good at holding a community together. You, Maestro? You're no holder.

20
Apocalypse World / Re: holdless scenarios?
« on: July 30, 2011, 07:47:19 AM »
Quote from: Shreyas on July 30, 2011, 02:43:52 AM
based on a game i've played with a hold and one without

the hold is no good

it's just a lot of little house on the prairie homework business that don't really get across the whole 'life here in AW is cheap and terrible' vibe because everything is too safe.

Being in a hold should be WAY more dangerous than being out of a hold. A hold is where the people are.....

21
Apocalypse World / Re: Circling conflicts (or why you should do the things Baker says do when playing)
« on: July 29, 2011, 09:47:22 PM »
IAWA didn't seem to get the same attention as the others. I'm basically making that up, but it feels true.

But there was a thing there about circling conflicts and confronting them directly. It was good and interesting.

Did any of that make it over into AW? In any form? Hmmm.

22
Apocalypse World / Re: Circling conflicts (or why you should do the things Baker says do when playing)
« on: July 29, 2011, 08:54:35 PM »
IAWA is post-dogs and pre-AW. :)

23
Apocalypse World / Re: pc fighting and manipulation
« on: July 29, 2011, 08:13:51 PM »
Every game I've ever played in has had quite a bit of PvP. And we've always regretted it. And yet, we never learn.

Like life.

24
Apocalypse World / Re: Circling conflicts (or why you should do the things Baker says do when playing)
« on: July 29, 2011, 08:10:23 PM »
Quote from: noofy on July 28, 2011, 09:01:37 AM
I like your 'circling' analogy....

Not mine! It's from Baker's In a Wicked Age

25
Apocalypse World / Re: The Maestro D' and Barter
« on: July 29, 2011, 08:08:43 PM »
Quote from: Lukas on July 28, 2011, 06:46:36 PM
....we're just assuming that the establishments generates enough income to sustain my character and her crew, but we're at a loss for more barter-related stuff to do.

Oh, god no. No, make him buy. Not all the time, but sometimes, have one of his NPCs tell him that it's time to pay up. When he asked you how he's supposed to get barter, ask him how he gets barter.

If he says "through my shop", then he's wrong. Business is hard in the AW. And mechanically, the establishment runs below cost. That's fine. Better to have side deals.

26
Apocalypse World / Circling conflicts (or why you should do the things Baker says do when playing)
« on: July 18, 2011, 09:41:55 PM »
So one issue I've always had with AW is that the games I've played in and ran both seem to have hit the conflict button over and over like one of those apes with the wires in the sexual center of its brain.

Sure there's no status quo, but often, things weren't static enough to even care about the NPCs. Just us eating plot like we're langoliers.

Little slice o' AP:

So Clarity, she's a Touchstone. And Smokey, he's a Maestro. And Clarity, she's got herself this little school where she indoctrinates teaches the teenagers of the hold that her way is the way of the just and all that. Smokey, he sells drugs.

Enter Caps. Caps, a brand newly named NPC, is called into existence by the MC as one of Clarity's school children. And he takes it upon himself to go down to Smokey's and bust up the place. Seems good, right? PC-NPC-PC triangles and all that.

But that's a Midnight thing, on the countdown clock. I think it's much better to have a 3 o'clock, where Caps comes to Clarity and expresses his unhappiness with the drug joint. And a 6 where one of the other students tells Clarity that she's seen Caps hanging out outside the place.

Sure, the aftermath is fun. But the circling, the circling is what makes the NPCs human and it's what makes them matter to the PCs.

Basic stuff, but it's been on my mind.

27
Apocalypse World / Re: Hardholds without wealth
« on: June 27, 2011, 07:26:15 AM »
Quote from: Grover on June 25, 2011, 03:15:47 PM
Alternatively, you can just not use the wealth rolls for that settlement. 

Yeah, that's how i run it, in the case of someone getting a hold without wealth or a gang without Leadership or Pack Alpha.

I think Wealth, Leadership, and Pack Alpha are all learned leadership styles and the game has, in every case, systems in place for someone to get one of those. But someone with a gang, but no move, like the Maestro D, the MC's handling it moment to moment, per the fiction, according to his principles, prep, all that.

28
Apocalypse World / Re: AP: Dust and Bullets
« on: June 26, 2011, 09:32:06 PM »
Sweet game, man. Just got bookmarked and I'll be reading along!

29
Apocalypse World / Re: Advice requested
« on: June 24, 2011, 10:29:49 PM »
Even if you're playing two characters, the first is still advancing and will eventually need to retire or change books.

I'd talk with him. Make it clear that this happens for a reason; the best fiction features characters that change, maybe even against their will. Tell him that he's not playing a new character and would most likely keep several of the gunlugger moves. Also, tell him that by this point, he's in charge of a gang, a hold, and he has gigs. Another book might be able to handle all this better. But most of all, tell him again: you're still playing the same character; you're just exploring another side of him.

If he's still dragging his feet? Fuck it. Life's too short. He's the permanent gunlugger.

30
Apocalypse World / Re: Random Apocalyptica Table?
« on: June 22, 2011, 11:11:10 AM »
Yeah, no offense, man, but this sounds like the worst.

When you join in with your group in a sort of collaborative world-building deal in the first session, you build up investment in the world. It's yours and what are you going to make of it, yeah?

Outside of being apprehensive about barfing forth cool apocalyptica, I'm not sure what the point of a random description table would be.

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