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Messages - Daniel Wood

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76
Apocalypse World / Re: Fudge version of PbtA
« on: May 23, 2016, 07:23:39 AM »

Given 2097s hilarious GDNS post on Storygames, I just figured they were on an epic trolling spree.

77
Daniel, I'm not sure what part of that seems unconvincing to you. I agree that the leverage is Soleil's life, but I'm not sure why it's all that unreasonable to demand Patriarch take Boiled Face too. Entertoise has the leverage for it, after all. It is threatening to let Tumtum kill Soleil, because that threat is the leverage.

I'm not sure why that isn't sensible. I don't think it's an "out" for Patriarch to take the deal, since that's what Entertoise proposed! That's a success for him.

But it's explicitly not. His goal is to keep Soleil, as stated. His goal is not 'either I keep Soleil, OR I get rid of Boiled Face' -- Boiled Face is if anything a totally separate type of leverage, which is why (IMO, obviously) the move would lack a clean resolution. Because the 7-9 reaction to Boiled Face leverage is totally different than the 7-9 reaction to Kill Soleil leverage. You could just pick one, of course, but then you end up with a situation where the player actually only wanted to keep Soleil, but the NPC ends up taking Soleil and Boiled Face on a 7-9. Proposing a deal that you absolutely do not want the other person to take is only effective manipulation if the deal is Absolutely Terrible, and this one doesn't really seem to be that bad on the face of it. Now I guess you can just let the roll cover that, but again, this seems to distract from the explicitly stated goal, which is actually 'remain guardian of Soleil' -- because now the roll is about Boiled Face, and actually nobody (apparently) really cares about that guy.

78
Apocalypse World / Re: Help with threats and play write-up
« on: May 19, 2016, 12:43:49 AM »

Oh, okay. That's a very different thing. My advice there is: never think about 'which Threat should I use?' -- just think about what should happen next, using the other tools (Agenda, Principle, MC moves). You should think about who might show up or what might happen or where would be a cool next scene... and then you've already answered your question as to 'which Threat' because you know who is there or where it is, and now you only have one or two Threats at most to keep track of: the ones that are in the scene.

If it is literally a matter of physical organization of paperwork, I suggest one index card per Threat, with the most relevant Threat moves written on it. It should hopefully be pretty straightforward to shuffle through them and select the 1-3 ones that are relevant for the current scene. (This could be adapted to help you with MC moves in general, too: pick a few MC moves that you think that Threat is likely to use as well, and put them on the card. That puts all the likely MC moves for a scene in one place, by focusing them through the Threats.)

As for countdown clocks, my feeling is that those are basically just for Fronts, unless you have a really great idea for a Threat-based one (though even then, probably should only be Threats that are part of Fronts.) I can't imagine running a game with more than two or three countdown clocks running at once -- like one per Front, max, unless I thought of something really cool or clever, in which case I shouldn't have trouble remembering it anyways.

--

As to the general 'there are too many moves omg' -- MC moves are there to help you when you don't have any other ideas. Most of the time, you will just think of something to happen next and it will turn out to be very similar to an MC move --  but you don't have to think 'what MC move am I using right now.' You just need to say what happens, using Agenda and Principles. The big list of MC moves is there for when you're stuck -- either stuck in the moment, or stuck repeating the same patterns over and over.

Like, there are lots of MC moves I never think about, because they're part of my natural idea of 'things that happen in apocalypse stories' -- but there are other MC moves that I will almost never think of by myself, because they aren't part of my storytelling habits. So when I am going to MC a game, my only move-related prep is usually going to be picking ONE or MAYBE TWO of those second kind of moves -- and writing myself a reminder to try and use them this one session.

The key is not to worry about all the moves at once, the key is to prep yourself a very small sub-section of the moves for that one session. That way when you are feeling overwhelmed you just look at a list of like, five things, and pick one of those. Instead of a list of 30 things. You don't need to make every MC move in every session, after all -- just spend a little time if you can before the session starts, going over the list of MC/Threat moves, and pick out a few that seem likely to be relevant. Like, 'okay, they're going into the radioactive swamp this session, so 'Separate Them' is probably a good one' -- and then maybe one or two of the Threat moves for the swamp, based on what kind of Landscape it is, and there you go -- a really short list, that can fit on one small piece of paper. If you're not sure where a session is going to go you can prep a few of these -- and don't be afraid to overlap moves. Sometimes I'm just like 'ok, MC, your ONE GOAL this Session is gonna be to Separate Them at least once...' and then I just run the game as best I can and when I'm stuck I'm like 'oh right, Separate them!'

79
Apocalypse World / Re: Help with threats and play write-up
« on: May 18, 2016, 03:28:33 AM »

Also, go read this thread: http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=7479

It is fairly long but it is by far the best thing anyone has so far written about Threats and Fronts. IMO it should be pinned to the top of this forum.

80
Apocalypse World / Re: Help with threats and play write-up
« on: May 18, 2016, 03:24:36 AM »

I don't have time to go into detail here, but let me summarize:

Everyone and everything is a Threat. EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING. EVERY. ONE. AND. EVERY. THING.

The only choice is a) when you are going to bother figuring out what kind of Threat they are and b) whether  they are part of a Front or just on the Home Front.

But if you have bothered to give somebody a name in more than passing, they are a Threat. All these things you described are Threats, or part of Threats. They are not selectively Threatening to only one PC -- they are just Threats. To everyone. They may manifest in a way that is a bigger deal to one or another PC -- the angry mob might try to kill the Brainer first, and only later destabilize the Hardhold -- but they are ultimately a Threat to everyone.

On a) I suggest doing a run-through early on, but don't worry if you end up with a few left over where it just doesn't seem that important yet to figure them out. Then keep those ones in mind, and if they show up in more scenes you should probably decide what sort of Threat they are (hopefully the scenes themselves will help you figure it out.)

On b), you can be more selective. If you have a ton of named NPCs left and right but only a few Fronts, you may have lots of Threats in your Home Front. Only put Threats in a Front if it makes sense. And unlike Threats, you DO want to limit yourself to a smaller number of Fronts.

On the other hand, if you have some Threats that are clearly a big deal in the fiction, but aren't part of a Front -- you should think about building a Front around them, in an effort to bring their Threat-ness into focus.

--

The distinction between something being 'just a Threat' and something being a Threat that is part of a Front is I think maybe why you seem reluctant to call things by their proper name. Deciding what kind of Threat something or someone is doesn't mean _they are currently a huge problem_ or that _they will always be acting out their Threat moves_ -- it just means that when (not if) something goes wrong with them, this is how it is going to go wrong. Knowing what kind of Threat something is makes it easier for you to decide what happens on a Miss -- you can just look at the Threat type and go 'oh, they probably do THIS' or 'oh, maybe THIS happens'.

Something that is part of a Front, though -- that's something that is actively threatening things, or is about to be actively threatening them if the PCs don't intercede. Fronts are on the move, and their Threats are their moving parts. Threats that hang out on the Home Front are just chilling -- something specific will have to provoke them, whether it be something the PCs do directly or something that results from the activities of the Front-related Threats. But they're still THREATS, and your life will be much easier if you know what kind they are before a PC randomly decides to shoot one in the gut.

81

The only thing that looks like leverage to me is that if they don't make a deal, Soleil is going to get cut in half. Purposefully suggesting an unreasonable deal (here take Boiled Face too for literally no reason) is basically threatening to let TumTum kill Soleil.

It's not a very sensible approach to manipulating someone, however, because it gives the Patriarch a really obvious out -- just take the deal -- that makes sense even if the roll is successful. It's also a pretty unconvincing approach if the actual goal is to keep Soleil alive, since the most obvious 7-9 result is to just call the bluff and see if TumTum actually kills Soleil.

I am kind of torn in situations like this, because it pits 'be a fan of the PCs' against 'make Apocalypse World seem real.' Attempting really weird Manipulates based on unconvincing-to-the-MC leverage is probably the #1 fun-destroyer I have encountered in my AW experience.

82
Well, now if she dies, it has to be on purpose. Random bullet in a bar fight gone wrong: not on purpose. Throwing herself off a bridge because a PC rejected her advances: probably on purpose? A PC's cult specifically trying to kill her: definitely on purpose.

83
Apocalypse World / Re: 2nd Edition Kickstarter
« on: May 04, 2016, 06:35:35 PM »
Coughing up doesn't have to make sense, no. It's the show's choice; if they want it to make sense, they can choose accordingly.

Strange. I assumed that if they chose a higher barter amount than the crowd could reasonably have, they are basically forcing people to destitute themselves in order to cough up in a sort of frenzy of fandom. Like, handing over their only pair of boots, or the community's one gun, offering to give over their children, etc. The Show strikes me as very closely aligned with Johnstone's Four Horsemen playbooks, or an exploitatively-played Touchstone.

In any case that will be how I'll run it, if I ever have to MC someone picking the playbook (which, ugh, just not my thing.)

84
Apocalypse World / Re: Question about Quarantine in Play
« on: May 04, 2016, 06:25:28 PM »

There's lots of different ways this could make sense -- JustusGS provided a good one -- but also... why not just ask the player what it means? It seems unlikely that they chose the option without any ideas about what it meant, fictionally, so just wait until it's triggered and then ask them what it's like, in the same way you're going to already be asking them what it's like to Open Their Brain to the Maelstrom. Most likely, the two will be strongly connected.

85
Apocalypse World / Re: Seize by force and harm move options
« on: May 04, 2016, 06:20:28 PM »

What he said, but also: it's the apocalypse, +1 harm _always_ makes sense. Infections from rusty weapons, weird radioactive after-effects, adrenaline obscuring the true amount of damage... there are dozens of reasons why an initial description of harm could turn out to be optimistic, without compromising the fiction at all.

86
Apocalypse World / Re: Some character portraits
« on: April 27, 2016, 05:35:10 PM »

I also don't see any images.

87
Apocalypse World / Re: A calmer apocalypse?
« on: April 22, 2016, 02:03:01 AM »
What actually happens when you do "the talk" beforehand like I did, I think, is that you limit the players' view of their choices.

This is true to my experience as well. I find it much more effective as the MC -- or even as a player, if my character has strong Maelstrom-feelings -- to simply bring the things I want to the table, and bounce them off the players. Like, you're the MC, the players can talk about doing insane shit in the Maelstrom all they want, but that's not actually remotely under their authority -- the Open Your Brain move is pretty explicit about the results on a hit, and none of them include blowing someone up with your hatred or whatever. It's an informational move that is like 95% colour. The colour part is incredibly great and important, but there are other moves for psychically doing harm, and if someone wants to do truly crazy Maelstrom shit that's what Augury is for, generally speaking.

I do think that there is a useful version of 'the talk', though --  but the trick is to have the talk ABOUT the colour, not really about what the Maelstrom does or is. You need to have the talk in the same kind of language that you use to MC someone Opening Your Brain. For example, I have found it quite effective, for initial AW setting building in general, to use word maps and free association among players -- have players put forward single words or concepts or impressions or images that they imagine being part of the Maelstrom, and maybe do a bit of building on some of them (or save that for the game, if they are vibrant enough on their own.) Things like 'empty' or 'a railroad track extending endlessly into the horizon' or 'like a Dali painting' or 'cold' or 'friendly' or whatever are, in my experience, massively more constructive -- and far less likely to produce this limiting effect -- than trying to pin down 'can the Maelstrom give you information' or 'is the Maelstrom an alternate dimension' or whatever. Getting some player input on the _feel_ of the Maelstrom will inevitably also constrain what the Maelstrom turns out to practically be -- but it won't lock down any of that right off the bat, it will just provide a narrower set of starting points for the players.

Another approach, slightly more likely to end up focused towards the 'what is it/what can it do', would be to borrow a tool from Microscope and make a list of things the Maelstrom definitely WON'T include. So if a player is bored of the Maelstrom always turning out to be another dimension they can just put 'no 'going into' the Maelstrom' or 'not an alternate dimension' or whatever on the list -- or 'no mind control' or 'not technological' or whatever. Obviously this is likely to be more effective for groups that have played the game before, but even a slightly miss-aimed veto is still going to tell you something about the player's preference.


88

Have you read the book on what happens when a leaderless gang takes significant casualties? Has your Hardholder's player? Either way, if you want to make losing Jamaica more obviously troublesome, you can just specify 'Jamaica dies; the gang is without a leader' as that option. If the gang takes few casualties, that might not matter as much; then again, what will this gang do if they gain unsupervised access to an enemy hardhold? Gangs tend to be made up of violent, savage individuals, who tend to have historically poor interactions with 'mostly defenseless 'enemies''. The Hardholder's goal may be to assassinate Elbow, but having to deal with a civilian massacre could hollow that victory out quite quickly.

So yeah, losing a competent NPC leader REALLY does not seem like a 'non-choice' to me, though you certainly know your players and your game best. Maybe in your game those sort of people grow on trees, but in my experience with AW that's not something one throws away in exchange for a few violent thugs.

89
Apocalypse World / Re: What does honesty demand?
« on: April 14, 2016, 09:15:39 PM »
I have begun to wonder, is this telling what honesty demands. Or to be precise, am I using the wording and not telling whether she's lying by omission as a way to obscure her intentions and the developments in the world?

No. Yes. When I started reading this I was expecting the question to be whether you should outright tell the players at some point that she is obviously omitting things -- which I feel could go either way. But if the Angel is rolling a move and spending hold and you STILL aren't telling them that this NPC is lying... that just seems like a terrible idea. It's not just 'what honesty demands', it's also 'giving the characters the full benefit of their moves' and a few other things besides.

I mean, to flip it around, what is the advantage here, of not just telling the Angel 'she's leaving something out' or 'it's obvious she's not telling you everything she knows' or whatever? Is it somehow making the PCs lives more interesting, them not knowing that something else is up? Is it being a fan of the PCs? Making apocalypse world feel real?

I mean that is literally the move for finding out if somebody is lying... and the person is lying...

90
Apocalypse World / Re: Brainstorming Help: Non-literal Disease Vector?
« on: March 14, 2016, 06:13:12 PM »
Yeah, what Tim said. Impulsive action, obsessive love, foolish belief that everything will work out OK. Or maybe she has some more complex belief system that just looks like this on the outside, but will emerge more completely in time.

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