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Messages - MarkyParky

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Apocalypse World / Re: Is AW meant to be prescriptive? (for MC)
« on: April 26, 2020, 03:35:30 AM »
No, I don't. That's the reason I ask.


I always see you using them, so it gave me impression that to use them is at least a strongly recommended "good practice" if not a requirement.
And my experience with using them as an constraint is generally positive. It forces me to be creative and limits me from repeating myself or making too straightforward or even blunt moves. It's both fun and useful to use them this way.



That is why I was surprised when you said they are there just to remind.

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Apocalypse World / Re: Is AW meant to be prescriptive? (for MC)
« on: April 16, 2020, 04:36:25 AM »
Vincent:
Everything is pretty clear now, thank you for your time and effort.


Last small personal question:

In your first reply, you wrote:
The lists of MC moves are there to remind you to say more things, a wider variety of things, not to limit you to saying a strict set of things.


On the other hand if I look at your examples how you play both in the book or here in the forum, you use them like hell.  And of course you twist them and combine them and use them with different targets and content, but generally you always mark them bold to be visible in your examples.


So I assume this is more like your favorite/recommended style of play? How often do you - in your games - do you ad-hoc play a move that is not from lists or derivation of something from the lists?

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Apocalypse World / Re: Is AW meant to be prescriptive? (for MC)
« on: April 13, 2020, 04:50:07 PM »
Vincent:
Thank you for explanation.

I am sorry to dig deeper into this, but as much as your answer did clarify me one think, it did confuse me on another. Brace yourself, another long post is coming :).


I understand now that the rules should not hold me back when deciding, what move to make or how hard it should be. That's perfectly clear - page 89 is a guideline, but I can make a move harder or softer if I need it.


But I am a bit confused now about the actual trigger when MC should play the move. Page 88+89 says, that I shall make MC move when:

* There's a pause in the conversation and players are looking at me to say something or players directly ask me about what's going to happen next,
* the rules says so (6- and "Prepare for the worst" or a player move saying "ask the MC", etc...) or
* here is a clear opportunity (like a danger that players didn't respond to, NPC that could have something in meanwhile, etc..)

Until today, I though it is pretty clear. Even with all the examples and explanations you gave me, it fitted. But it is your last sentence, that got me confused.

You can always, with no warning, seize control with a hard and direct move, if honesty or your prep demands it. The rules never stop you from doing that, and you don't have to wait for them to miss a roll.

* Does it mean that I can do a MC move anytime I want, as long as it is okay with "Always say"? Are the rules above there just to make sure I do it when it's needed?
* Or must there still be one of those impulses or triggeres for MC to say something first, but immediately when there is one, the move can be as hard, as I want?



Example:

Let's say I ask Fred, the driver, what does he do in the afternoon.

If the player answers: "I go to my garage," and nothing more, it pretty clear, that this is a pause in the conversation. So I make my move: "As you've been approaching the garage, you found bunch of jerks that are searching for  something and when they see you, they start yelling at you: 'Where are you hiding Diana? Tell us, or we?ll kill you!'"


I can clearly play this move even if there was nothing mentioned before about Diana or these guys - this is a setup for future moves and events.



But what if the players says: "I go to my garage and take my car for ride. I'm driving to Holden's place."
Is it OK to interrupt him, take it as an opportinity to make your move and say: "As you've been approaching the garage, you found bunch of jerks that....."


Can you please go with me with following examples to clarify this?
I wrote three of them - first two should be clear and I wrote them just to be sure, third is the one, that I am confused about.

Case #1.: There was an unresolved setup from before. Frend spend an evening with Diana, he got drunk and he promissed her take her to paradise. The player just forgot about it. I am thinking offscreen: Maybe she took it seriously and disapeared in the night. Maybe someone overheard the conversation and maybe someone hire theese guys to bring her back. This is clearly an oportunity and I can make my move. I would interupt him.

Case #2.: There was nothing about Diana or the guys in a game so far - I'am just thinking about some cool event - but the player didn't know it at all and skipped the opportunity in the conversation. In this situation I would never interupthim to make a move. I would feel like manipulating the player into what I want to play, instead of playing to find out. There is neither pause in conversation nor my prep would justify such interuption.

Case #3.: Let's say, that we have a Diana NPC in the game and her impulse is "To escape". Let's say, that these thugs are also known as a NPC gang operating in the area and guarding noone escapes. But there was no previous setup of this situation, they are just there. On one hand, there is some prep that I can use to justify the move, on other hand, it is not a very strong demand.

Can I interrupt the player in such a situation? Should I?  Or am I completly wrong on all this?


Thank you again for your patience

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Apocalypse World / Re: Is AW meant to be prescriptive? (for MC)
« on: April 12, 2020, 12:47:48 PM »
Hi Vincent,

thank you for your quick replay to Sirien.
Unfortunately, I am afraid, that his question didn't move us any closer to resolve our debate because it is not targeting the differences in our understanding the game. So, I would like to ask a slightly different way to clear this up.

I'll try to explain the way how I play AW as MC. I am sorry, that my post is a bit longer, but I'd like to understand the game as close as your intentions were, when you wrote it. Would you be so kind and correct me if I do something wrong or if I understand something wrong (or apply some rule to strict, etc...)


As I understand the game rules, there are different levels of how MCs autority over the game is limited.



Without the interference of the rules the game is a normal conversation like in any other RPG game. The players say what their characters do, I say what the NPCs do. I describe them the environment, they ask me follow up questions, I ask them provocative questions. We roleplay some conversation with NPCs or I describe straightforward reactions of the NPCs.

I call this "players are on the move", even though it isn't described like that in the book because its mainly about players and their actions. My tasks, as MC, are limited. I do provide players with support, information, maybe moderate their spotlight, etc.  I also watch for any events, that might trigger a player move. I Help them to choose right move for their situation in game fiction or to chose the right description for the move they want to play. If some player move come into play, we resolve it with dice and if it's a hit, we make choices, answer the questions or describe the outcomes and the conversation continues.

Last but not least, I am also watching for any impulses or triggers for me to play my move.

During this conversation I shouldn't force my player to do any moves, unless they come out of their own actions in the game world and I should refrain from taking over the control over the game. I play like my authority over the game is limited to NPC actions and description of the environment.



Very often during the conversation, the players ask me for something, maybe a reaction of some NPCs or the game world itself, maybe they just look and wait what I do next or what the NPCs does next. This is a trigger for me to play my move - "MC makes a soft move". Now it is my task to direct the game somewhere: to setup some situation for players to deal with, to show opportunities or to present a danger. I can also softly push some player moves. But there are still some limits, I shouldn't cross - I should refrain from doing definite, irrevocable actions. "Soft moves" are just setups and I should immediately offer my players an opportunity to react or act accordingly: "What do you do?" so our conversation continues with "players on the move".



Sometimes during the conversation, I'am allowed to do even more than that. The player rolls 6- and there is "Prepares for the worst" written in the move. Or there was some "soft move" setup, but the players decided to ignore incoming threat and they let it happen. Or the players willingly hand the opportunity to me. This is the time for "hard move" - some definitive, irrevocable action from me, where I can do (almost) anything I want, as long it goes with principals and makes sense in the game fiction. But again, immediately after my move, there comes: "What do you do?" and our conversation continues with "players on the move".



Of course, this process is not "taking turns" like in the boardgame. There are some distinguishable moments (like 6- on the dice, or "What do you do?" question or PvP, where MC moderates the order), but apart from that, it is all happening during a normal conversation. From one player to another, from player to MC to another player, everyone does his actions in some natural order, only sometimes we throw dice or I look into my papers with threads and moves for answers.

That's why I'd like to call this structure semi-formal. It is very subtle and a player unaware of this structure might not see any difference from conversation in any other RPGs. But once I am playing as an MC, I follow this structure as a strict rule. Not a formal one - I am not telling players "It's my turn" or "It's yours", but as my internal MC rule, that I always follow, as AW agenda wants me to do. And if I know this structure as a player, I can use it in my advantage a bit (like not asking MC the question for which I don't want to hear their answers).



So, my question is:
* Do I understand correctly that MC should use these rules regulary?
* Or am I too strict, MC can do whatever he wants and these are mere guidelines he can use, if he doesn't know what to do himself?

Thank you very much for your clarification.

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